Looking pretty great! Your linework is very confident, and your constructions are looking solid. The only bit of advice I have to offer is for when you fit your cylinders into boxes - or more specifically, ellipses into planes. Here's how you do so properly.
By the way, sorry for the delay - been struggling with some tight deadlines and overtime at work, so a lot of the homework critiques have gotten delayed over the last two weeks.
Anyway, consider this challenge complete! Keep up the good work.
I'll definitely set some time aside at one point to get a bit of extra work on constructing cylinders inside boxes (or as you said - ellipses on planes, afterwards it's just connecting them). It was quite tricky to find a good angle to draw these ellipses - I tend to align my forearm with the minor axis, but not sure if it's optimal in that case.
Thanks for the crit and don't worry about delay, I totally get it. We always dread December/January at work, it's a nightmare every year.
You're making good progress, but one recommendation that I have is that you try to draw your cylinders a little larger. I know that since you're not terribly confident with your use of the ghosting method that you're likely feeling inclined to draw shorter lines since they might be easier. This has an opposite negative effect however - drawing small gives us less space to think through spatial problems, which are very important when drawing any 3D forms. It also causes us to produce drawings that feel a little more clumsy, due to the thickness of the pen tip relative to the overall drawing.
The most important thing is to not allow the lack of confidence to make your decisions for you. Often times at the beginning it's necessary for us to fake confidence and behave as though we're more capable than we are. Eventually our level of technical skill catches up with us, and before we know it, we stop having to fake it.
Anyway, consider this challenge complete. Keep up the good work.
Looking pretty good! Your line quality is coming along well, and your ellipses are certainly moving in the right direction. I am still noticing some stiffness on those ellipses though, so definitely keep pushing yourself to draw from your shoulder, and draw with a confident pace after ghosting through the drawing motion. The evenness and smoothness of the shape is always of a higher priority than the accuracy, so keep that in mind.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that you do have a bit of a tendency to really exaggerate the difference between the degrees of the two ellipses. Remember what the degree itself represents (I mention it in these notes and in this video). Basically if the degree shift is really dramatic, it's going to imply very large scale (a lot like dramatic perspective distortion on a box implying large scale). So try to keep those shifts more subtle in the future.
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete!
Looking good! Your constructions are solid and confident, and your corrections seem to be well thought out. I don't have much to offer in terms of critique - you're heading right on the right track, so keep it up. Congratulations on completing the challenge.
You had mentioned working on my ellipses in my lesson 2 submission (they seemed a bit stiff) - so I decided to try the cylinder challenge to work on ellipses. I also made some template pages to help guide my practice toward correct ellipse shapes. I've started holding the pen more vertically and focused more on letting my shoulder drive the pen. I'm still working on finding right speed. I'm still struggling with egg shapes and lumpy ellipses. Any suggestions or exercises that might help?
Looking really sharp! To be honest, I think your ellipses are absolutely moving in the right direction - as well they should, you've clearly put a lot of time and effort into them... and so many pages. There are minor discrepancies here and there, but I don't want you to obsess over them - these will go over with time and practice, but if you continue grinding so fervently on them, you'll go mad.
Just remember to continually draw with a confident motion, and don't let any doubts or second-guessing cause you to hesitate. This is where the irregularities in the shape come from. That said, where you are right now as far as ellipses go is where you should expect to be. Perfection is something that comes slowly, over months and years. It's easy to get caught up in that, since the first leg of the journey always shows considerable improvement over a short period of time. Don't let it distract you.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Feel free to move onto lesson 3.
Here are my 250 cylinders. Is there a way of always knowing where to draw the minor axis through (especially when it comes to more circular ellipses)? I forgot to draw them in until halfway through, so when I went back, I was guessing most of the time.
You've done reasonably well, especially with the free floating cylinders. The ones in boxes were definitely more challenging, or at least, partially so. What you seemed to have trouble with was drawing ellipses that actually represent perfect circles in 3D space (so a lot of your cylinders ended up being squashed). This video on drawing perfect circles in 3D space should help clarify how to approach that problem.
As for your question, it's generally just something we develop an eye for through practice. Always remember that you're cutting that ellipse into two symmetrical halves - so it's like folding an elliptical piece of paper in half. There's no trick to doing it, aside from doing it wrong a bunch of times.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Keep up the good work.
It's definitely a good start. I do have a few recommendations however as you continue to practice these:
Don't fill your cylinders with contour lines/hatching as you have done. Your aim should be to draw cylinders that feel fully 3D on their own, and require no reinforcement. Just draw your minor axis, two ellipses, and two lines connecting them.
Your ellipses definitely have some stiffness to them - always remember that the process of drawing is split into two phases. The first one is about planning, thinking through the problem, and ghosting through the drawing motion in order to build up muscle memory. The second phase is where your brain turns off, and you execute the mark with a confident pace, trusting in your muscle memory. Once you've moved from the first phase to the second, you've basically committed to it - if a mistake's going to be made, nothing you can do now will avoid it. Therefore, there's no point in being hesitant about it, it's like the mistake has already been made.
Your use of the minor axes, and your general construction is coming along great. What definitely needs work however are your ellipses. Often times you aren't drawing through them, and in general you're being quite stiff and stressing precision over the flow and evenness of the shape. You need to be applying the ghosting method so that you can invest all of your time in the preparation phase, leaving you to execute the marks with much more confidence.
Looking at your ellipses, you'll notice that they're actually being distorted away from being elliptical, and more towards being somewhat capsule-shaped. This in turn causes the cylinders to look like they've been squashed.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Be sure to continue working on those ellipses.
Your cylinders are looking good. The advanced boxes are also pretty solid. The boxes with ellipses inside of them are looking a little loose though (that is, the ellipses themselves are), you're definitely going through those ellipses too much. Your pen gradually dying a slow and painful death is probably also a factor.
In general you're doing well, though I do recommend practicing constructing cylinders inside of boxes as demonstrated in the 'how to draw cylinders' video. The video about drawing perfect circles in 3D space, and fitting ellipses into planes correctly is also something that will come in handy in that capacity. The reason that practicing starting your cylinders from boxes is important is because this tends to make aligning our cylinders to specific angles considerably easier.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete.
Here are my 250 cylinders~ I don't have anything specific to add about this. I use both my hands when drawing, this is why certain cylinders are more wobbly than others.
Edit: I remembered what I was thinking about adding as a note when I was drawing! I want to say that while the lessons that you give are all done on paper with a fine liner, I started them with the goal of being a good digital artist. So far, the effect of this course has been greater beyond my wildest dreams, and I'm not exaggerating. I have a tendency of being very critical, especially towards myself, and the difference between what I could do before i started this with now is mind-blowing. In most cases I can do a line from one go and it is long, curvy, and smooth. Not always, obviously, but it's so inspiring!
I really appreciate the kind words! It means a lot to know that my lessons are having an impact.
Your cylinders are looking pretty good. I do have one recommendation though - try to practice starting your cylinders off as boxes as well. I demonstrate how to approach this in the 'how to draw cylinders' video, though the video about 'perfect circles and cubes in 3D space' is also relevant, as it demonstrates how you can draw an ellipse inside of a plane knowing that it represents a perfect circle and not an arbitrary elliptical shape.
Being able to draw your cylinders inside of boxes helps considerably when you find yourself having to align those cylinders to a specific construction. You'll end up encountering a lot of this in lessons 6 and 7.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Feel free to move onto lesson 2.
Very nice work! I can definitely see some serious improvement, both on those ellipses, and in general your approach to construction. Your forms feel solid and cohesive, and I'm very pleased to see you practicing both approaches to constructing cylinders - that is, starting with a minor axis, as well as starting from a box.
Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Hey! I finished this a while ago but it's just been laying in a drawer. I haven't practiced much on cylinders since then but I get it if you think I should redo it to be more up to date with my skills. http://imgur.com/a/10cGD
Your last two pages are definitely better, though I do feel that across the whole set there's a real sense of sloppiness to how you've approached these. One of the biggest signs of this is how you handle your minor axis line - it's usually drawn somewhat thoughtlessly, not quite centered, and it doesn't penetrate the ellipses on either side which makes it largely.. not that useful.
Remember that the minor axis is supposed to go down first, should be drawn with the ghosting method (as should all lines) to ensure that it is as straight and smooth as possible. Then you straddle both ellipses on the line so that the line cuts through both entirely - you want to be able to judge the alignment of the ellipses relative to the line, ideally having cutting both ellipses into two equal, symmetrical halves down their narrower dimension. The way you've approached it, it's not really all that possible to achieve a good alignment.
I will mark this challenge as complete since you did draw all 250 cylinders, but I strongly agree with your desire to redo it, and will happily critique it should you resubmit.
Thanks! I wasn't very happy with them either so I'll put some cylinders on my daily to-do list. I did put down the minor axis first, so the fact that it isn't centered is just sloppiness/lack of practice.
It's been a bit since I submitted an assignment! Finished the last couple pages of this just tonight. I still struggle with lumpy ellipses and axis alignment, but I think I'm improving.
Here's my submission for the 250 cylinder challenge:
Looking good! You're generally doing great. The only thing I want to mention is that there was a different approach to constructing cylinders mentioned in the video - starting by constructing a box, then using it to find your minor axis and situate your ellipses. The "perfect circles in 3D space" video also mentioned exactly how to determine whether or not you're drawing an ellipse that represents a proper circle, or if it's squished/stretched in any given axis. In order to get used to this, it definitely helps to experiment with constructing cylinders within those boxes (since you're forced to deal with the building ellipses in planes, aligning cylinders to specific orientations, etc.) in ways that will ultimately be advantageous when you reach lesson 6.
This of course is just something to keep in mind as you move forwards. It doesn't play as significant a role until you actually complete a few more lessons, so just be sure to practice it before then. What you've done here is showing a good grasp of constructing even, confident ellipses, applying the ghosting method, and a generally strong sense of spatial awareness.
Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
After making an attempt at lesson 6, I decided that I needed to complete this challenge first! 250 cylinders. Drawing them inside boxes was very challenging! Thanks a million.
Hey, just wanted to let you know that your homework submission hasn't been missed. Sorry for the delay - I'm swamped at work and haven't been able to get through my backlog. Things should be back to normal in a day or two.
Pretty good work overall. I'm glad to see that you're playing with both constructing cylinders purely from the minor axis, as well as approaching it by starting with a box, forcing yourself to contend with the complexities of getting those ellipses into planes properly. This will definitely come in handy in lesson 4.
I did notice that with some of your longer lines, you definitely had a tendency to lose a bit of control. Not abnormal, especially considering the nature of the lines where this occurred, but definitely something to keep an eye on.
Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete. Also, thank you for your patience.
Here is my attempt at the challenge, I gave up at the 200 mark and left it a few months before completing, my main problem is stiffness in the ellipses, to be honest I probably improved my straight line work more than my ellipses.
There are some examples of my ellipse warm ups in the library too. Any more pointers to work on would me much appreciated.
Pretty solid work. The tables of ellipses are definitely looking quite nice, and the stiffness we see in some of the earlier cylinders definitely decreases towards the end, especially after the break you took. I think as far as those ellipses go, my recommendation would be to ease up on how much you're drawing through them. Go around two full times, then lift your pen.
For the cylinders, I have two recommendations. Firstly, try to make the shift in degrees (between the ellipses at either end) a little more subtle. A larger change implies that the cylinder itself is quite large in terms of its scale, while a subtler change will imply a much smaller scale more closely related to most of the objects we see and use on a daily basis.
The second recommendation is that you should also practice drawing your cylinders by starting off with a box, as demonstrated in the video. This will be particularly useful when you have to align your cylinder to a specific orientation. It will also help get you used to drawing ellipses within planes, matching the criteria necessary for an ellipse to represent an actual circle in 3D space.
Anyway, you're generally doing quite well, so just keep that stuff in mind as you move forwards. Keep it up and consider this challenge complete.
You're doing pretty well, and I can see your confidence improving as you move through this set. Even within the first hundred, your grasp of what you're doing and the integrity of your ellipses steadily gets better.
There's just two things that I want to point out and recommend that will help in the future:
Firstly, as you move through the set, I can see areas where your linework - that is, the basic minor/major axis lines - gets sloppy. Sometimes it's just a subtle arcing, other times they're not really serving a purpose at all because you've deviated so much from the intended alignment. Make sure you're applying the ghosting method to these lines, and that you're approaching this work with a focused, rested and patient mind. It is quite challenging to put down a line and then draw an ellipse aligned to it, but it will improve over time as long as you have your mind set to the task.
Be sure to practice constructing those cylinders inside of boxes as well, as this will help considerably in situations where you need to construct your cylinder to some specific alignment where you have a bunch of other forms already present. This is especially important much later into the lessons, when you start hitting lesson 6.
Anyway, you've generally done a pretty solid job, so just keep those points in mind. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
Definitely getting better over the set. Be sure to take more care with your straight lines though. In many cases they're just fine, while in others they arc and wobble a bit, or don't remain entirely straight when they ought to. I think it's more a matter of focus and patience than anything else, but lines really are the basis for all of this so it's important that they remain consistently straight.
I'm glad to see that you practiced both freestanding cylinders and those within boxes. The latter will definitely be useful in the next lesson.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
One thing that stands out to me here is that your lines are somewhat sloppier than they were when you did your 250 box challenge. You seem to be focusing more on the repetition of the actions, going through the same formula (leading to drawing a lot of cylinders in the same orientations) like a machine rather than properly focusing on the execution of every individual mark. I understand that 250 is a lot, but if you're not putting your mind to each and every one, you're not going to gain a whole lot from them.
Overall, I think this set demonstrates to me that you need to review the material from lesson 1. As mentioned at the beginning of that lesson, you're meant to be incorporating those exercises into a warmup routine so you can continually maintain and hone those particular skills. Doing so will not only help you maintain smooth, straight lines and confident, even ellipses, but it will also train you to be more patient and conscious of every mark you put down.
I am going to be marking this lesson as complete, because you did complete it - but I guarantee you that given the appropriate amount of attention and focus, you can do much better than this.
Thank for your feedback! Maybe I was too eager to go back to lesson 2-3 so I tried to finish this one faster than I should've. I'll pay more attention to individual lines next time.
Hey! I redid the challenge. I realized a while ago that I was mostly using my elbow and not my shoulder to draw, so I'm trying to fix that. I feel like I get the technique now but I still mess up a lot when making straight lines, about 50 % of the time even. It's really frustrating because I don't know if I just lack practice or if I've misunderstood the technique. I'm thinking of fully redoing lessons 1 and 2, good idea?
These are looking pretty decent, so I'm not sure what you're getting so frustrated over. There's room for growth and improvement of course, but you're doing fairly well. One thing that I do want you to keep in mind however is that you should be stopping yourself from automatically reinforcing your lines with additional marks. Remember that the ghosting method requires you to think and plan before each and every stroke. This should completely preclude you from any kind of reflexive drawing.
Additionally, it's a good idea to also practice drawing cylinders inside of boxes, as covered in the two videos linked in the challenge. This will help you considerably when you get into lesson 6, as it allows you to align a box as you like, and then construct a cylinder inside of it.
As for your question, redoing lessons 1 and 2 is always a good idea. After a while, even if you're practicing those exercises regularly as instructed, you can start to fall off the rails and forget important things. It's a good idea to reread the material and even get someone else's eye on those exercises to make sure you're not practicing anything incorrectly.
You're definitely heading in the right direction. There are however a couple issues I want to point out.
First and foremost, when you draw your cylinders inside of boxes, you're doing something very peculiar with the farther end of your cylinders. For some reason you're purposely making that ellipse very small, rather than actually filling in that far plane of the box. This simply doesn't make any sense.
The way an ellipse fits into a plane does not change based on its position relative to the viewer, or its position relative to the overall form. By definition, what you've drawn there is more akin to a cone with its tip cut off - the radius of the cylinder decreases as it gets further away.
Now if we had no box at all, it could potentially look correct, but it would be telling us that the rate of foreshortening on the cylinder is fairly dramatic (while the box was more shallow). I do think that this was just a weird slip-up that you didn't notice, and simply ended up continuing to do, but it's definitely a weird one.
The other thing I wanted to point out was that many of your cylinders are rather squashed. This isn't bad or wrong, but I want to make sure of the fact that you're aware of this. Basically, as discussed in this video (linked from the challenge page), not every box is a cube, and not every plane is a square. Therefore if you already have vanishing points set up in a scene, or other things that already imply specific vanishing points, your ellipse may not necessarily represent a circle. For this reason, it is very possible to end up with cylinders that feel as though they're compressed in one particular dimension, like they've been constructed from ovals instead of circles. That video goes over the criteria necessary for an ellipse to represent a circle in 3D space.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. You're doing a pretty good job of using your minor axes (though there are several cylinders where you neglected to include them, which is definitely something you want to avoid). Just be sure that you understand the issues I raised, and maybe do a little more practice in this area for yourself to ensure that you're able to apply that information.
It looks like every attempt Patreon's made to charge you for your pledge over the last two months has been declined, so you're no longer eligible for homework critiques.
AAAH. This was totally my mistake. I somehow attributed your username to a different patreon account who hadn't been paying (though they didn't ask for critiques so I'm not terribly concerned about them). I'm so sorry for messing up with this. I'll go ahead and add your submission to my backlog, you should get a critique on it tomorrow.
Ahaha, yeah. I try to quietly keep track of people who haven't paid up, but who have received critiques. I don't like the idea of going knockin' on doors demanding money, so this way I can act all high and mighty when they ask for a critique again.
.. and apparently make an ass of myself. I was so excited for the opportunity, too!
Nicely done! I'm loving the variation - constructing strictly around a minor axis, constructing inside of a box, varying proportions and so on. I did notice some here and there that weren't quite sitting in their enclosing planes too well though, so I strongly recommend taking a look at this video if you haven't already. Getting an ellipse to sit right in a plane can be rather tricky, and can definitely take some getting used to.
Anyway, keep up the great work - and again, sorry for making that mistake yesterday. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
Well done! Very well done, in fact. You've paid careful attention to your ellipses' alignments with your minor axes, you've practiced starting from a box for many of these cylinders, you're exhibiting a well developing use of the ghosting method, and your ellipses are confident and even.
There's only one thing that I want to point out to you. Take a look at cylinders 223 and 179. There may be others, but these are the examples that I noticed. Notice how the ellipse is noticeably slanted? Make sure you watch this video from the challenge page about the particular criteria that determines whether or not an ellipse represents a perfect circle in 3D space. There's two key criteria - the alignment of the minor axis to one of the vanishing points, and the contact points with its enclosing plane above and below being aligned towards the vertical vanishing point. In these examples, the contact points are not aligned in such a way that the ellipse would be considered circular in 3D space.
That said, I also saw plenty of examples where you approached this correctly. Since it's a little obscure and not everyone watches that video, I figured it was still worth pointing out.
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
I definitely think your linework gets much more solid after the first several pages. Keep in mind though, you should be drawing through all of the ellipses you draw for my lessons, and doing so confidently. Confidence really is the key - if you hesitate when drawing something (usually due to being overly focused on drawing something clean and pretty), your lines will wobble and will generally come out stiff. Drawing confidently does mean that you have to accept a likelihood of making mistakes (especially earlier on), but this is simply the way things are. Mistakes happen, and everything we draw here are just exercises. There will always be more opportunities to do better.
Anyway, aside from that you're doing great. I'm glad t osee that you played both with drawing your cylinders purely based around the minor axis, as well as starting from boxes. Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Very nicely done! Your cylinders are looking very solid and well constructed. The only recommendation I have as you continue to move forwards is to also try your hand at constructing cylinders by starting off with a box. Specifically constructing the circular end of a cylinder within a flat plane can be quite challenging, and is worth practicing (there's a video linked in the challenge page about that particular topic that's worth watching).
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
So one thing that I always advise against is drawing anything lightly/faintly first, then going over it to clean up your lines. This is inherently different from adding line weight, which doesn't seek to replace entire lines, but rather adds thickness to key sections (often to clarify overlaps and the like). When we try to replace our linework, we end up working against the principles espoused by the ghosting method, and these lessons in general - that is, we draw way more slowly, causing our linework to come out rather stiff. This is one issue that you seem to be encountering quite a bit, and it very much undermines the solidity of your cylinders. At this stage, when getting used to the structure and solidity of rudimentary forms, it's very important to draw every mark confidently - that means the ellipses on both ends - and not to attempt to hide them. Remember that the construction is what matters - not the end result.
I also see a lot of examples where you've tried to make things more interesting by combining cylinders in various ways, creating objects, and so on. This inherently distracts from the central focus of the construction of each cylinder (which admittedly is boring as all sin, but by this point I'm sure you're familiar with that particular part of the drawabox curriculum). As a result, you end up spending less of your brain power reinforcing the basic tenets of what it means to build up a cylinder. Your ellipses tend to align to the minor axis less frequently, your lines don't tend to be too straight, and your ellipses sometimes come out less than even.
You put a lot of work into this, but that effort was very much invested in the wrong place. All the challenge asks for is 250 individual drawings of cylinders, using the two methods outlined in the notes (starting with your minor axis, and starting with a box). Your main focus should be on conquering the challenges of aligning two ellipses to a single minor axis, constructing ellipses of particular degrees to fit the orientation of the cylinder you're after, and ultimately to apply the ghosting method to achieve smooth, confident, straight lines to join them.
I am 100% certain that when putting your focus to the correct areas, and by resisting the urge to make things more interesting, you'll be able to kick the crap out of this challenge. Because of that, I'm not going to mark this challenge as complete. If I didn't know you could do much better, I probably would (because after all, you did draw 250 cylinders). This time, I choose to hold you to a higher standard, and I look forward to seeing you meet it.
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2017-06-12 09:51
Did the 250 Cylinder challenge http://imgur.com/a/DRTyP. For the first 12 pages I got a little caught up in my fears and things went terribly so I put another page as the first one just so those pages wouldn't be the first thing you see.
I have a theory I would like you to correct if you don't mind.
When an object turns in space; the sides of that object which turn away from the viewer become shorter and their lines converge quicker (that is to say the angles become sharper). However while the former is always noticeable the latter is only significant in larger objects. This is because, even though a similar rotation in objects of different scales causes a similar shift of vanishing points, the object of larger scale is closer to the vanishing points and is therefore affected by their rotation more greatly.
Therefore the rotating box exercise in lesson 1 is done at a large scale.
Hope that makes sense.
[deleted]
2017-06-12 10:22
Oh yeah, the pages with the red marker are done with that special ballpoint pen I made a post about a week ago.
Generally your cylinder constructions that start off from minor axes are fairly well done. Early on I think you're a bit sloppy about ensuring that your ellipses both sit on the same minor axis such that the line penetrates all the way through (otherwise it can be more difficult to judge whether or not the ellipses have been aligned correctly), but this improves over the set. One thing I have noticed though - and this is less of an issue at this point, but is definitely something to be aware of - is that your cylinders have a tendency of being squashed in one dimension. Basically, the ends of the cylinders are not circular, so it is as someone has taken a cylinder and flattened it out a little bit.
This leads into something I noticed about most of the cases where you constructed your cylinders by starting with boxes. Your ellipses aren't really constructed inside of the planes of the given boxes. You're touching them against the upper and lower edges of said plane, but not those along the side. This renders the box a little pointless, as the purpose of this approach is to establish the box as a representation for the space the cylinder will eventually occupy. This means that its dimensions are effectively the same as the resulting cylinder, and that the ellipses should make contact with all four edges of their enclosing planes.
This video (linked in the 250 cylinder challenge) touches on both what determines whether or not an ellipse represents a circle in 3D space, as well as how to go about constructing an ellipse within a given plane. I recommend that you give it a watch if you haven't already.
Aside from that, you're doing pretty well. Your linework is confident, and your use of line weight is solid. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
As for your theory, the idea that foreshortening is more dramatic and more noticeable on objects of a larger scale is correct (I mention this in these notes). That said, I wouldn't say that the rotated boxes exercise is done at too large a scale - certainly not at the scale of a skyscraper or anything like that.
[deleted]
2017-06-13 09:09
Thanks for the review. I just have one question about what you said about the ends of my cylinders. You said they were not circular. Did you just mean that they were too pointy and tapered? Or did you mean literally if you cut off both ends of the ellipse and put them together they should form a circle? Are these closer to what you mean?
The ones you linked there generally look fine, but it isn't about the ellipses being too pointy/tapered or that other thing you mentioned. That said, upon reflection, I think it may be best to disregard what I mentioned before. I think I was a bit brain-addled after doing a lot of overtime at work.
Once you have actual vanishing points implied, it is definitely possible to have arbitrary ellipses that don't actually represent a circle in 3D space (as explained by that video I linked). In this case however, those vanishing points aren't implied until the cylinder itself is constructed, so technically speaking we could argue that any ellipse at that point is in fact a circle, so long as anything added afterwards conforms to the vanishing points implied by that first cylinder.
I think what caught my eye was more that you had particular issues in keeping your ellipses aligned to the minor axes. Also, there were many cases where the change in degree between the ellipses on either end of a cylinder was rather extreme. While still technically correct, it does imply that the cylinder is so massive that it bends around us. It's best to keep that shift in degrees on your ellipses more subtle, with the far end being only slightly higher in degree than the near end. Again, these examples are looking fine in that regard, so continue to aim for that. You are still struggling with aligning to your minor axis though, so that's definitely where you're going to want to invest more of your effort. Make sure that you place each ellipse entirely on the minor axis - you've got a few that have the minor axis stop halfway through instead.
Pretty nice work! Congratulations on completing this challenge. Here are a couple recommendations as you continue to move forwards:
I noticed that for a lot of these constructions, you drew your ellipses around the ends of the minor axis line, with the minor axis starting and ending from the center of the ellipses on either side. Instead, try having the ellipses sit such that they are completely on top of the minor axis, with the line cutting through them completely. This will give you a better sense of their alignment, and will allow you to more easily spot instances where the ellipse isn't quite cut into two equal, symmetrical halves.
Try your hand at constructing cylinders from boxes as well. This video (linked in the challenge notes) should help if you haven't watched it already. Boxes are much easier to construct when dealing with more complex systems of forms, so starting with a box and then building a cylinder inside of it can help considerably to keep things aligned nicely, and positioned exactly where you want them.
Drawing ellipses freehand is so damn hard... I screwed up so many times, I discarded half of the cylinders I draw in a day sometimes, I keep working on my ellipses each day, hoping to get better and some day repeat this challenge without as much effort :(
Ellipses certainly are challenging, but from what I'm seeing you're doing a pretty good job of it. I mean, I guess the ones you discarded may have been worse, but it's important to remember that mistakes and blunders are totally par for the course. They're not just inevitable - they're necessary.
Your cylinder constructions are looking very solid, and I particularly like some of the variations you've implemented here - like drawing several cylinders on a single minor axis. I'm also pleased to see that you made several attempts at starting with a box. Some more of these would definitely be better, as this approach tends to be very useful in later lessons (like lesson 6), but you're doing great as it is.
The only thing I want to point out is that you do have a lot of cylinders where your minor axis extends from the center of each ellipse. Remember that the purpose of the minor axis is to help with alignment, so actually drawing each ellipse so it falls entirely on the minor axis (being cut through completely by it) is going to be much more useful in terms of gauging whether or not it was lined up correctly. Being able to see whether or not you did it correctly is definitely a big part of the learning process.
Anyway, great work. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. By the way - thanks for increasing your pledge! I really appreciate it.
After doing most of the second lesson (up until intersections), i decided that i should also do the cylinder challenge to improve upon my ellipses :)
Was quite challenging at times but really helped again to get more confident with placing ellipses at the correct locations and with fitting degrees :D
One thing i noticed during the challenge is that i tend to draw to many rounds on my ellipses if they are not fitting, especially for the ones inside the boxes, i will try to limit that to two to three rounds in the future practices :)
Nice work! I can definitely see that you struggled in certain areas, but your confidence definitely improved over the whole set. I certainly agree that your work has a tendency to get a little hairy, especially when you lose confidence in the shape of what you're drawing. I definitely encourage you to limit yourself to two or three rounds tops (two is really optimal), as you're planning to do. Also try and slow down when applying weight to your straight lines. I don't mean slow down when executing, but rather, try to draw less and spend more time planning and ghosting through that motion before executing. I definitely noticed hairiness here too, where you seemed to go over and over and over a line, seemingly dealing with inaccuracy by drawing more rather than taking a step back and thinking through the process.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that you should be sure to give this video (linked in the challenge page) a watch if you haven't already. It covers how to construct ellipses inside of planes, which you don't seem to be doing correctly. There's two major criteria described in that video, and it's an important thing to internalize as you move forwards.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the feedback, your on point with what your saying :) after i thought about it i really did draw most of them thicker because i didn't match them perfectly sometimes probably because i didn't plan them good enough.
As for the Ellipses inside of planes i have a few question, as far as i understood the two criterias are that the minor axis of the ellipses results from the two center points of the ellipses and should point directly towards one vanishing point. (Like i drew in the image below for point 1. in red)
And the second point (Nr. 2 in red the drawing below) is that the ellipse should touch the points directly above each other according to the vanishing points? (e.q. for two point or three point perspective these wouldn't necessarily be straight lines like i drew below in one point perspective)?
Also one more thing i noticed was that i had a hard time to place the ellipses inside the Box, e.q. that the minor axis was aligned in a way that i was unable to place the ellipse fittingly and also touch the top/bottom correctly for example for 205 in my original submission, is this due to the fact that this area is not a square and instead a rectangle, e.q. for cylinders should the planes be squares in perspective? and then i should be able to align them correctly (Nr. 3 in the drawing below for an additional example)?
For my cylinders in boxes from 241-245 did i also make these mistakes that you mentioned there (besides 242?)?, for them i tried to match the minor axis with the vanishing points and to align the ellipses so that they hit the bottom and the top aligned with the approx. vanishing points, is there anything else i am missing?
Those are indeed the criteria to which I'm referring. In one and two point perspective, the contact points above and below the ellipse to its enclosing plane are indeed going to be directly above and below each other. It's three point perspective where this changes slightly, with the introduction of a vertical vanishing point. In all three cases, the contact points need to be aligned to the VP, it just so happens that in one and two point perspective, the VP is at infinity so those lines run perfectly up and down.
You are correct that when you are unable to draw an ellipse that fits both criteria, it means that given the two vanishing points that define the box itself, the face enclosing your ellipse is not perfectly square. This actually makes it quite challenging to figure out how to draw a perfect square/circle in perspective once your vanishing points have already been defined. For the most part we rely on getting it close enough, though we do improve on this with practice.
For those particular cylinders, 241 and 243 look pretty solid. 244 feels like it's a little slanted, as does 245.
I had a problem with cylinders coming out squashed at the start but figured it out I hope.
(I started with a small degree on the first ellipses but went with a large amount of foreshortening which contradicts itself as small degree says I'm seeing the cylinder more from its side while large amount of foreshortening tells me it goes into depth)
Other than that I only have to say that superimposing ellipses is hard, especially drawn through ones.
Thank you once again for your time,
Ozelotl
Edit:
With the additional page I was going for something like the advanced boxes but for cylinders, do you think it makes sense as an exercise?
Generally you're doing quite well. I especially do like those sliced cylinders, I think it's a great way to push the exercise a little further and test your ability to control your ellipses.
Going back to the cylinders in boxes, I did notice that you were a little inconsistent in how you placed your ellipses inside of their enclosing planes. In a handful of cases, you've got ellipses that float more arbitrarily within that space. You'll want to make sure that your ellipses touch all four edges of the enclosing plane (or come as close to that as you can manage), while also matching the criteria outlined in this video.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Keep up the good work!
I think I messed up a lot of the boxes already by not thinking about the fact that one side of it should represent a square and then got even sloppier because of that.
I will practice those more and give the video you linked another watch now that I had some practice.
Thanks again, see you hopefully soon on lesson 4 :)
I honestly disagree. I think they're looking great. Your lines are confident, your ellipses are even and well placed, and your forms look pretty solid. Keep up the great work! I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
Hey uncomfortable! I started with a few exercises on lesson 2, but I chose to do the 250 cylinders first. I had some difficulties with those in the boxes. Number 238: Should I elongate the elips to the corners ? I watched the videos and I am not sure if I did the right thing on paper. Sometimes I got sloppy and insecure. http://imgur.com/a/FWLWP
Uncomfortable
2017-01-11 01:44
Last thread got locked, so patreon supporters who are eligible for critiques can submit their work here.
NvBlaze
2017-01-11 07:58
Thanks for new thread. Here they are.
Uncomfortable
2017-01-12 22:49
Looking pretty great! Your linework is very confident, and your constructions are looking solid. The only bit of advice I have to offer is for when you fit your cylinders into boxes - or more specifically, ellipses into planes. Here's how you do so properly.
By the way, sorry for the delay - been struggling with some tight deadlines and overtime at work, so a lot of the homework critiques have gotten delayed over the last two weeks.
Anyway, consider this challenge complete! Keep up the good work.
NvBlaze
2017-01-13 00:04
I'll definitely set some time aside at one point to get a bit of extra work on constructing cylinders inside boxes (or as you said - ellipses on planes, afterwards it's just connecting them). It was quite tricky to find a good angle to draw these ellipses - I tend to align my forearm with the minor axis, but not sure if it's optimal in that case.
Thanks for the crit and don't worry about delay, I totally get it. We always dread December/January at work, it's a nightmare every year.
[deleted]
2017-01-15 00:51
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2017-01-15 16:59
You're making good progress, but one recommendation that I have is that you try to draw your cylinders a little larger. I know that since you're not terribly confident with your use of the ghosting method that you're likely feeling inclined to draw shorter lines since they might be easier. This has an opposite negative effect however - drawing small gives us less space to think through spatial problems, which are very important when drawing any 3D forms. It also causes us to produce drawings that feel a little more clumsy, due to the thickness of the pen tip relative to the overall drawing.
The most important thing is to not allow the lack of confidence to make your decisions for you. Often times at the beginning it's necessary for us to fake confidence and behave as though we're more capable than we are. Eventually our level of technical skill catches up with us, and before we know it, we stop having to fake it.
Anyway, consider this challenge complete. Keep up the good work.
curlosm
2017-01-15 20:08
Hello Uncomfortable, here's my homework: http://imgur.com/a/yI7Al
Uncomfortable
2017-01-16 21:49
Looking pretty good! Your line quality is coming along well, and your ellipses are certainly moving in the right direction. I am still noticing some stiffness on those ellipses though, so definitely keep pushing yourself to draw from your shoulder, and draw with a confident pace after ghosting through the drawing motion. The evenness and smoothness of the shape is always of a higher priority than the accuracy, so keep that in mind.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that you do have a bit of a tendency to really exaggerate the difference between the degrees of the two ellipses. Remember what the degree itself represents (I mention it in these notes and in this video). Basically if the degree shift is really dramatic, it's going to imply very large scale (a lot like dramatic perspective distortion on a box implying large scale). So try to keep those shifts more subtle in the future.
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete!
[deleted]
2017-01-19 00:52
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2017-01-19 19:57
Looking good! Your constructions are solid and confident, and your corrections seem to be well thought out. I don't have much to offer in terms of critique - you're heading right on the right track, so keep it up. Congratulations on completing the challenge.
[deleted]
2017-01-19 22:00
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2017-01-19 22:01
Yup, you're free to do so.
dabel
2017-01-21 21:59
Another round of 250 cylinders for your review: http://imgur.com/a/uGl0Z
You had mentioned working on my ellipses in my lesson 2 submission (they seemed a bit stiff) - so I decided to try the cylinder challenge to work on ellipses. I also made some template pages to help guide my practice toward correct ellipse shapes. I've started holding the pen more vertically and focused more on letting my shoulder drive the pen. I'm still working on finding right speed. I'm still struggling with egg shapes and lumpy ellipses. Any suggestions or exercises that might help?
Thanks again!
Uncomfortable
2017-01-23 03:08
Looking really sharp! To be honest, I think your ellipses are absolutely moving in the right direction - as well they should, you've clearly put a lot of time and effort into them... and so many pages. There are minor discrepancies here and there, but I don't want you to obsess over them - these will go over with time and practice, but if you continue grinding so fervently on them, you'll go mad.
Just remember to continually draw with a confident motion, and don't let any doubts or second-guessing cause you to hesitate. This is where the irregularities in the shape come from. That said, where you are right now as far as ellipses go is where you should expect to be. Perfection is something that comes slowly, over months and years. It's easy to get caught up in that, since the first leg of the journey always shows considerable improvement over a short period of time. Don't let it distract you.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Feel free to move onto lesson 3.
letthemdrawcake
2017-02-06 02:36
Hi Uncomfortable,
Here are my 250 cylinders. Is there a way of always knowing where to draw the minor axis through (especially when it comes to more circular ellipses)? I forgot to draw them in until halfway through, so when I went back, I was guessing most of the time.
Uncomfortable
2017-02-06 20:57
You've done reasonably well, especially with the free floating cylinders. The ones in boxes were definitely more challenging, or at least, partially so. What you seemed to have trouble with was drawing ellipses that actually represent perfect circles in 3D space (so a lot of your cylinders ended up being squashed). This video on drawing perfect circles in 3D space should help clarify how to approach that problem.
As for your question, it's generally just something we develop an eye for through practice. Always remember that you're cutting that ellipse into two symmetrical halves - so it's like folding an elliptical piece of paper in half. There's no trick to doing it, aside from doing it wrong a bunch of times.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Keep up the good work.
Abel2TheMoon
2017-02-06 04:46
Here you go, thanks. Ellipses are a continuing work in progress for me and will continue to work on them as part of my drawing routine.
https://imgur.com/a/meitT
Uncomfortable
2017-02-06 21:09
It's definitely a good start. I do have a few recommendations however as you continue to practice these:
Don't fill your cylinders with contour lines/hatching as you have done. Your aim should be to draw cylinders that feel fully 3D on their own, and require no reinforcement. Just draw your minor axis, two ellipses, and two lines connecting them.
Your ellipses definitely have some stiffness to them - always remember that the process of drawing is split into two phases. The first one is about planning, thinking through the problem, and ghosting through the drawing motion in order to build up muscle memory. The second phase is where your brain turns off, and you execute the mark with a confident pace, trusting in your muscle memory. Once you've moved from the first phase to the second, you've basically committed to it - if a mistake's going to be made, nothing you can do now will avoid it. Therefore, there's no point in being hesitant about it, it's like the mistake has already been made.
When drawing your ellipses in planes, I see a few cases where your ellipse doesn't fill up the entire thing. The ellipse should touch each edge of the given plane once. Also make sure you've watched this video on drawing ellipses that represent perfect circles in 3D space.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Feel free to submit your work for lesson 2.
Killertomate
2017-02-13 22:18
Here 250 Cylinders, thank you!
http://imgur.com/a/wj054
Uncomfortable
2017-02-14 00:11
Your use of the minor axes, and your general construction is coming along great. What definitely needs work however are your ellipses. Often times you aren't drawing through them, and in general you're being quite stiff and stressing precision over the flow and evenness of the shape. You need to be applying the ghosting method so that you can invest all of your time in the preparation phase, leaving you to execute the marks with much more confidence.
Looking at your ellipses, you'll notice that they're actually being distorted away from being elliptical, and more towards being somewhat capsule-shaped. This in turn causes the cylinders to look like they've been squashed.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Be sure to continue working on those ellipses.
Occultist-Narath
2017-02-17 21:43
Here is my homework: http://imgur.com/a/V7hl9
I also included the advanced boxes and a couple pages i did to practice ellipses in boxes.
Uncomfortable
2017-02-19 19:05
Your cylinders are looking good. The advanced boxes are also pretty solid. The boxes with ellipses inside of them are looking a little loose though (that is, the ellipses themselves are), you're definitely going through those ellipses too much. Your pen gradually dying a slow and painful death is probably also a factor.
In general you're doing well, though I do recommend practicing constructing cylinders inside of boxes as demonstrated in the 'how to draw cylinders' video. The video about drawing perfect circles in 3D space, and fitting ellipses into planes correctly is also something that will come in handy in that capacity. The reason that practicing starting your cylinders from boxes is important is because this tends to make aligning our cylinders to specific angles considerably easier.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete.
SilverSevir
2017-02-19 09:42
Hello, Uncomfortable!
Here are my 250 cylinders~ I don't have anything specific to add about this. I use both my hands when drawing, this is why certain cylinders are more wobbly than others.
Edit: I remembered what I was thinking about adding as a note when I was drawing! I want to say that while the lessons that you give are all done on paper with a fine liner, I started them with the goal of being a good digital artist. So far, the effect of this course has been greater beyond my wildest dreams, and I'm not exaggerating. I have a tendency of being very critical, especially towards myself, and the difference between what I could do before i started this with now is mind-blowing. In most cases I can do a line from one go and it is long, curvy, and smooth. Not always, obviously, but it's so inspiring!
Uncomfortable
2017-02-19 20:33
I really appreciate the kind words! It means a lot to know that my lessons are having an impact.
Your cylinders are looking pretty good. I do have one recommendation though - try to practice starting your cylinders off as boxes as well. I demonstrate how to approach this in the 'how to draw cylinders' video, though the video about 'perfect circles and cubes in 3D space' is also relevant, as it demonstrates how you can draw an ellipse inside of a plane knowing that it represents a perfect circle and not an arbitrary elliptical shape.
Being able to draw your cylinders inside of boxes helps considerably when you find yourself having to align those cylinders to a specific construction. You'll end up encountering a lot of this in lessons 6 and 7.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Feel free to move onto lesson 2.
Madaoway
2017-02-28 23:47
Hello Uncomfortable,
Here are my 250 Cylinders Challenge : http://imgur.com/a/z787Y
On your last critique, you said that my ellipses were sloppy, so i thought that it was a good idea to do this challenge before moving on the Lesson 3.
It was really hard, and applying line weight on elipse is really tricky. I watched a bunch of time the two videos.
But it was really worth it, and i can fell that i am improving in my everyday drawing.
Thanks !
Uncomfortable
2017-02-28 23:55
Very nice work! I can definitely see some serious improvement, both on those ellipses, and in general your approach to construction. Your forms feel solid and cohesive, and I'm very pleased to see you practicing both approaches to constructing cylinders - that is, starting with a minor axis, as well as starting from a box.
Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Slabang
2017-03-01 14:54
Hey! I finished this a while ago but it's just been laying in a drawer. I haven't practiced much on cylinders since then but I get it if you think I should redo it to be more up to date with my skills. http://imgur.com/a/10cGD
Uncomfortable
2017-03-01 23:41
Your last two pages are definitely better, though I do feel that across the whole set there's a real sense of sloppiness to how you've approached these. One of the biggest signs of this is how you handle your minor axis line - it's usually drawn somewhat thoughtlessly, not quite centered, and it doesn't penetrate the ellipses on either side which makes it largely.. not that useful.
Remember that the minor axis is supposed to go down first, should be drawn with the ghosting method (as should all lines) to ensure that it is as straight and smooth as possible. Then you straddle both ellipses on the line so that the line cuts through both entirely - you want to be able to judge the alignment of the ellipses relative to the line, ideally having cutting both ellipses into two equal, symmetrical halves down their narrower dimension. The way you've approached it, it's not really all that possible to achieve a good alignment.
I will mark this challenge as complete since you did draw all 250 cylinders, but I strongly agree with your desire to redo it, and will happily critique it should you resubmit.
Slabang
2017-03-02 00:05
Thanks! I wasn't very happy with them either so I'll put some cylinders on my daily to-do list. I did put down the minor axis first, so the fact that it isn't centered is just sloppiness/lack of practice.
Rybar
2017-03-14 01:59
It's been a bit since I submitted an assignment! Finished the last couple pages of this just tonight. I still struggle with lumpy ellipses and axis alignment, but I think I'm improving.
Here's my submission for the 250 cylinder challenge:
http://imgur.com/gallery/QrP7Q
Uncomfortable
2017-03-14 19:49
Looking good! You're generally doing great. The only thing I want to mention is that there was a different approach to constructing cylinders mentioned in the video - starting by constructing a box, then using it to find your minor axis and situate your ellipses. The "perfect circles in 3D space" video also mentioned exactly how to determine whether or not you're drawing an ellipse that represents a proper circle, or if it's squished/stretched in any given axis. In order to get used to this, it definitely helps to experiment with constructing cylinders within those boxes (since you're forced to deal with the building ellipses in planes, aligning cylinders to specific orientations, etc.) in ways that will ultimately be advantageous when you reach lesson 6.
This of course is just something to keep in mind as you move forwards. It doesn't play as significant a role until you actually complete a few more lessons, so just be sure to practice it before then. What you've done here is showing a good grasp of constructing even, confident ellipses, applying the ghosting method, and a generally strong sense of spatial awareness.
Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
sperezmiller
2017-03-18 20:26
After making an attempt at lesson 6, I decided that I needed to complete this challenge first! 250 cylinders. Drawing them inside boxes was very challenging! Thanks a million.
Uncomfortable
2017-03-20 03:44
Hey, just wanted to let you know that your homework submission hasn't been missed. Sorry for the delay - I'm swamped at work and haven't been able to get through my backlog. Things should be back to normal in a day or two.
sperezmiller
2017-03-21 00:11
No worries! Remember, I'm the one who took a year to finish lesson 5. Good luck with work.
Uncomfortable
2017-03-21 21:19
Pretty good work overall. I'm glad to see that you're playing with both constructing cylinders purely from the minor axis, as well as approaching it by starting with a box, forcing yourself to contend with the complexities of getting those ellipses into planes properly. This will definitely come in handy in lesson 4.
I did notice that with some of your longer lines, you definitely had a tendency to lose a bit of control. Not abnormal, especially considering the nature of the lines where this occurred, but definitely something to keep an eye on.
Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete. Also, thank you for your patience.
Blade_of_souls
2017-03-26 16:44
Here is my attempt at the challenge, I gave up at the 200 mark and left it a few months before completing, my main problem is stiffness in the ellipses, to be honest I probably improved my straight line work more than my ellipses.
There are some examples of my ellipse warm ups in the library too. Any more pointers to work on would me much appreciated.
http://imgur.com/a/p4pvX
Uncomfortable
2017-03-27 01:04
Pretty solid work. The tables of ellipses are definitely looking quite nice, and the stiffness we see in some of the earlier cylinders definitely decreases towards the end, especially after the break you took. I think as far as those ellipses go, my recommendation would be to ease up on how much you're drawing through them. Go around two full times, then lift your pen.
For the cylinders, I have two recommendations. Firstly, try to make the shift in degrees (between the ellipses at either end) a little more subtle. A larger change implies that the cylinder itself is quite large in terms of its scale, while a subtler change will imply a much smaller scale more closely related to most of the objects we see and use on a daily basis.
The second recommendation is that you should also practice drawing your cylinders by starting off with a box, as demonstrated in the video. This will be particularly useful when you have to align your cylinder to a specific orientation. It will also help get you used to drawing ellipses within planes, matching the criteria necessary for an ellipse to represent an actual circle in 3D space.
Anyway, you're generally doing quite well, so just keep that stuff in mind as you move forwards. Keep it up and consider this challenge complete.
[deleted]
2017-03-29 13:11
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2017-03-30 23:09
You're doing pretty well, and I can see your confidence improving as you move through this set. Even within the first hundred, your grasp of what you're doing and the integrity of your ellipses steadily gets better.
There's just two things that I want to point out and recommend that will help in the future:
Firstly, as you move through the set, I can see areas where your linework - that is, the basic minor/major axis lines - gets sloppy. Sometimes it's just a subtle arcing, other times they're not really serving a purpose at all because you've deviated so much from the intended alignment. Make sure you're applying the ghosting method to these lines, and that you're approaching this work with a focused, rested and patient mind. It is quite challenging to put down a line and then draw an ellipse aligned to it, but it will improve over time as long as you have your mind set to the task.
Be sure to practice constructing those cylinders inside of boxes as well, as this will help considerably in situations where you need to construct your cylinder to some specific alignment where you have a bunch of other forms already present. This is especially important much later into the lessons, when you start hitting lesson 6.
Anyway, you've generally done a pretty solid job, so just keep those points in mind. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
adamzhang
2017-03-30 01:12
Here's my 250 cylinders challenge. Thanks!
Uncomfortable
2017-03-30 23:46
Definitely getting better over the set. Be sure to take more care with your straight lines though. In many cases they're just fine, while in others they arc and wobble a bit, or don't remain entirely straight when they ought to. I think it's more a matter of focus and patience than anything else, but lines really are the basis for all of this so it's important that they remain consistently straight.
I'm glad to see that you practiced both freestanding cylinders and those within boxes. The latter will definitely be useful in the next lesson.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
raincole
2017-04-01 15:57
I had a pretty hard time trying to draw cylinders in part 3 of lesson 2, so I did this one first. Here is my 250 cylinders. Thanks.
Uncomfortable
2017-04-03 01:53
One thing that stands out to me here is that your lines are somewhat sloppier than they were when you did your 250 box challenge. You seem to be focusing more on the repetition of the actions, going through the same formula (leading to drawing a lot of cylinders in the same orientations) like a machine rather than properly focusing on the execution of every individual mark. I understand that 250 is a lot, but if you're not putting your mind to each and every one, you're not going to gain a whole lot from them.
Overall, I think this set demonstrates to me that you need to review the material from lesson 1. As mentioned at the beginning of that lesson, you're meant to be incorporating those exercises into a warmup routine so you can continually maintain and hone those particular skills. Doing so will not only help you maintain smooth, straight lines and confident, even ellipses, but it will also train you to be more patient and conscious of every mark you put down.
I am going to be marking this lesson as complete, because you did complete it - but I guarantee you that given the appropriate amount of attention and focus, you can do much better than this.
raincole
2017-04-03 04:15
Thank for your feedback! Maybe I was too eager to go back to lesson 2-3 so I tried to finish this one faster than I should've. I'll pay more attention to individual lines next time.
Slabang
2017-04-05 20:52
Hey! I redid the challenge. I realized a while ago that I was mostly using my elbow and not my shoulder to draw, so I'm trying to fix that. I feel like I get the technique now but I still mess up a lot when making straight lines, about 50 % of the time even. It's really frustrating because I don't know if I just lack practice or if I've misunderstood the technique. I'm thinking of fully redoing lessons 1 and 2, good idea?
Uncomfortable
2017-04-06 03:28
These are looking pretty decent, so I'm not sure what you're getting so frustrated over. There's room for growth and improvement of course, but you're doing fairly well. One thing that I do want you to keep in mind however is that you should be stopping yourself from automatically reinforcing your lines with additional marks. Remember that the ghosting method requires you to think and plan before each and every stroke. This should completely preclude you from any kind of reflexive drawing.
Additionally, it's a good idea to also practice drawing cylinders inside of boxes, as covered in the two videos linked in the challenge. This will help you considerably when you get into lesson 6, as it allows you to align a box as you like, and then construct a cylinder inside of it.
As for your question, redoing lessons 1 and 2 is always a good idea. After a while, even if you're practicing those exercises regularly as instructed, you can start to fall off the rails and forget important things. It's a good idea to reread the material and even get someone else's eye on those exercises to make sure you're not practicing anything incorrectly.
curlosm
2017-04-27 23:37
Here's 250 cylinders:http://imgur.com/a/PKdg0
Uncomfortable
2017-04-28 17:05
You're definitely heading in the right direction. There are however a couple issues I want to point out.
First and foremost, when you draw your cylinders inside of boxes, you're doing something very peculiar with the farther end of your cylinders. For some reason you're purposely making that ellipse very small, rather than actually filling in that far plane of the box. This simply doesn't make any sense.
The way an ellipse fits into a plane does not change based on its position relative to the viewer, or its position relative to the overall form. By definition, what you've drawn there is more akin to a cone with its tip cut off - the radius of the cylinder decreases as it gets further away.
Now if we had no box at all, it could potentially look correct, but it would be telling us that the rate of foreshortening on the cylinder is fairly dramatic (while the box was more shallow). I do think that this was just a weird slip-up that you didn't notice, and simply ended up continuing to do, but it's definitely a weird one.
The other thing I wanted to point out was that many of your cylinders are rather squashed. This isn't bad or wrong, but I want to make sure of the fact that you're aware of this. Basically, as discussed in this video (linked from the challenge page), not every box is a cube, and not every plane is a square. Therefore if you already have vanishing points set up in a scene, or other things that already imply specific vanishing points, your ellipse may not necessarily represent a circle. For this reason, it is very possible to end up with cylinders that feel as though they're compressed in one particular dimension, like they've been constructed from ovals instead of circles. That video goes over the criteria necessary for an ellipse to represent a circle in 3D space.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. You're doing a pretty good job of using your minor axes (though there are several cylinders where you neglected to include them, which is definitely something you want to avoid). Just be sure that you understand the issues I raised, and maybe do a little more practice in this area for yourself to ensure that you're able to apply that information.
A-million-years
2017-05-02 00:36
Here is my 250 cylinder challenge
https://imgur.com/gallery/br8aT
Uncomfortable
2017-05-02 00:41
It looks like every attempt Patreon's made to charge you for your pledge over the last two months has been declined, so you're no longer eligible for homework critiques.
A-million-years
2017-05-02 00:52
Are you sure? I checked and I've been charged mar 1st, apr 1st, and today. It's what prompted me to post.
Uncomfortable
2017-05-02 00:55
AAAH. This was totally my mistake. I somehow attributed your username to a different patreon account who hadn't been paying (though they didn't ask for critiques so I'm not terribly concerned about them). I'm so sorry for messing up with this. I'll go ahead and add your submission to my backlog, you should get a critique on it tomorrow.
A-million-years
2017-05-02 01:01
No problem, I was about to send a complaint to patreon! Is that why my name was red when I posted earlier this week?
Uncomfortable
2017-05-02 01:05
Ahaha, yeah. I try to quietly keep track of people who haven't paid up, but who have received critiques. I don't like the idea of going knockin' on doors demanding money, so this way I can act all high and mighty when they ask for a critique again.
.. and apparently make an ass of myself. I was so excited for the opportunity, too!
Uncomfortable
2017-05-02 19:56
Nicely done! I'm loving the variation - constructing strictly around a minor axis, constructing inside of a box, varying proportions and so on. I did notice some here and there that weren't quite sitting in their enclosing planes too well though, so I strongly recommend taking a look at this video if you haven't already. Getting an ellipse to sit right in a plane can be rather tricky, and can definitely take some getting used to.
Anyway, keep up the great work - and again, sorry for making that mistake yesterday. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
A-million-years
2017-05-03 16:50
Thank you and no hard feelings! Finally onto lesson 2.
johnnylamonte
2017-05-13 04:22
Alright, following some tips from earlier, I completed the challenge:
https://goo.gl/photos/oRHxJuknemGHb71R6
Forgive me if I missed something though; don't hesitate to let me know to fix things.
Uncomfortable
2017-05-13 19:29
Well done! Very well done, in fact. You've paid careful attention to your ellipses' alignments with your minor axes, you've practiced starting from a box for many of these cylinders, you're exhibiting a well developing use of the ghosting method, and your ellipses are confident and even.
There's only one thing that I want to point out to you. Take a look at cylinders 223 and 179. There may be others, but these are the examples that I noticed. Notice how the ellipse is noticeably slanted? Make sure you watch this video from the challenge page about the particular criteria that determines whether or not an ellipse represents a perfect circle in 3D space. There's two key criteria - the alignment of the minor axis to one of the vanishing points, and the contact points with its enclosing plane above and below being aligned towards the vertical vanishing point. In these examples, the contact points are not aligned in such a way that the ellipse would be considered circular in 3D space.
That said, I also saw plenty of examples where you approached this correctly. Since it's a little obscure and not everyone watches that video, I figured it was still worth pointing out.
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
CaptainKong
2017-05-14 21:11
Here it is: http://imgur.com/a/0KJEP
Thanks for your time.
Uncomfortable
2017-05-15 01:13
I definitely think your linework gets much more solid after the first several pages. Keep in mind though, you should be drawing through all of the ellipses you draw for my lessons, and doing so confidently. Confidence really is the key - if you hesitate when drawing something (usually due to being overly focused on drawing something clean and pretty), your lines will wobble and will generally come out stiff. Drawing confidently does mean that you have to accept a likelihood of making mistakes (especially earlier on), but this is simply the way things are. Mistakes happen, and everything we draw here are just exercises. There will always be more opportunities to do better.
Anyway, aside from that you're doing great. I'm glad t osee that you played both with drawing your cylinders purely based around the minor axis, as well as starting from boxes. Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Bemezmerized
2017-05-15 04:56
https://goo.gl/photos/QimvMWGTSo2N2zNg6
I needed this! Here is my cylinder challenge.
I didn't get around to thanking you last time you looked at my work, so I'll thank you in advance for taking a look. Thank You!
Uncomfortable
2017-05-15 21:02
Very nicely done! Your cylinders are looking very solid and well constructed. The only recommendation I have as you continue to move forwards is to also try your hand at constructing cylinders by starting off with a box. Specifically constructing the circular end of a cylinder within a flat plane can be quite challenging, and is worth practicing (there's a video linked in the challenge page about that particular topic that's worth watching).
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Jackson622
2017-06-08 22:47
250...Objects for your review. Thanks.
Uncomfortable
2017-06-09 20:03
So one thing that I always advise against is drawing anything lightly/faintly first, then going over it to clean up your lines. This is inherently different from adding line weight, which doesn't seek to replace entire lines, but rather adds thickness to key sections (often to clarify overlaps and the like). When we try to replace our linework, we end up working against the principles espoused by the ghosting method, and these lessons in general - that is, we draw way more slowly, causing our linework to come out rather stiff. This is one issue that you seem to be encountering quite a bit, and it very much undermines the solidity of your cylinders. At this stage, when getting used to the structure and solidity of rudimentary forms, it's very important to draw every mark confidently - that means the ellipses on both ends - and not to attempt to hide them. Remember that the construction is what matters - not the end result.
I also see a lot of examples where you've tried to make things more interesting by combining cylinders in various ways, creating objects, and so on. This inherently distracts from the central focus of the construction of each cylinder (which admittedly is boring as all sin, but by this point I'm sure you're familiar with that particular part of the drawabox curriculum). As a result, you end up spending less of your brain power reinforcing the basic tenets of what it means to build up a cylinder. Your ellipses tend to align to the minor axis less frequently, your lines don't tend to be too straight, and your ellipses sometimes come out less than even.
You put a lot of work into this, but that effort was very much invested in the wrong place. All the challenge asks for is 250 individual drawings of cylinders, using the two methods outlined in the notes (starting with your minor axis, and starting with a box). Your main focus should be on conquering the challenges of aligning two ellipses to a single minor axis, constructing ellipses of particular degrees to fit the orientation of the cylinder you're after, and ultimately to apply the ghosting method to achieve smooth, confident, straight lines to join them.
I am 100% certain that when putting your focus to the correct areas, and by resisting the urge to make things more interesting, you'll be able to kick the crap out of this challenge. Because of that, I'm not going to mark this challenge as complete. If I didn't know you could do much better, I probably would (because after all, you did draw 250 cylinders). This time, I choose to hold you to a higher standard, and I look forward to seeing you meet it.
[deleted]
2017-06-12 09:51
Did the 250 Cylinder challenge http://imgur.com/a/DRTyP. For the first 12 pages I got a little caught up in my fears and things went terribly so I put another page as the first one just so those pages wouldn't be the first thing you see.
I have a theory I would like you to correct if you don't mind.
When an object turns in space; the sides of that object which turn away from the viewer become shorter and their lines converge quicker (that is to say the angles become sharper). However while the former is always noticeable the latter is only significant in larger objects. This is because, even though a similar rotation in objects of different scales causes a similar shift of vanishing points, the object of larger scale is closer to the vanishing points and is therefore affected by their rotation more greatly.
Therefore the rotating box exercise in lesson 1 is done at a large scale.
Hope that makes sense.
[deleted]
2017-06-12 10:22
Oh yeah, the pages with the red marker are done with that special ballpoint pen I made a post about a week ago.
Uncomfortable
2017-06-13 02:18
Generally your cylinder constructions that start off from minor axes are fairly well done. Early on I think you're a bit sloppy about ensuring that your ellipses both sit on the same minor axis such that the line penetrates all the way through (otherwise it can be more difficult to judge whether or not the ellipses have been aligned correctly), but this improves over the set. One thing I have noticed though - and this is less of an issue at this point, but is definitely something to be aware of - is that your cylinders have a tendency of being squashed in one dimension. Basically, the ends of the cylinders are not circular, so it is as someone has taken a cylinder and flattened it out a little bit.
This leads into something I noticed about most of the cases where you constructed your cylinders by starting with boxes. Your ellipses aren't really constructed inside of the planes of the given boxes. You're touching them against the upper and lower edges of said plane, but not those along the side. This renders the box a little pointless, as the purpose of this approach is to establish the box as a representation for the space the cylinder will eventually occupy. This means that its dimensions are effectively the same as the resulting cylinder, and that the ellipses should make contact with all four edges of their enclosing planes.
This video (linked in the 250 cylinder challenge) touches on both what determines whether or not an ellipse represents a circle in 3D space, as well as how to go about constructing an ellipse within a given plane. I recommend that you give it a watch if you haven't already.
Aside from that, you're doing pretty well. Your linework is confident, and your use of line weight is solid. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
As for your theory, the idea that foreshortening is more dramatic and more noticeable on objects of a larger scale is correct (I mention this in these notes). That said, I wouldn't say that the rotated boxes exercise is done at too large a scale - certainly not at the scale of a skyscraper or anything like that.
[deleted]
2017-06-13 09:09
Thanks for the review. I just have one question about what you said about the ends of my cylinders. You said they were not circular. Did you just mean that they were too pointy and tapered? Or did you mean literally if you cut off both ends of the ellipse and put them together they should form a circle? Are these closer to what you mean?
Uncomfortable
2017-06-13 13:33
The ones you linked there generally look fine, but it isn't about the ellipses being too pointy/tapered or that other thing you mentioned. That said, upon reflection, I think it may be best to disregard what I mentioned before. I think I was a bit brain-addled after doing a lot of overtime at work.
Once you have actual vanishing points implied, it is definitely possible to have arbitrary ellipses that don't actually represent a circle in 3D space (as explained by that video I linked). In this case however, those vanishing points aren't implied until the cylinder itself is constructed, so technically speaking we could argue that any ellipse at that point is in fact a circle, so long as anything added afterwards conforms to the vanishing points implied by that first cylinder.
I think what caught my eye was more that you had particular issues in keeping your ellipses aligned to the minor axes. Also, there were many cases where the change in degree between the ellipses on either end of a cylinder was rather extreme. While still technically correct, it does imply that the cylinder is so massive that it bends around us. It's best to keep that shift in degrees on your ellipses more subtle, with the far end being only slightly higher in degree than the near end. Again, these examples are looking fine in that regard, so continue to aim for that. You are still struggling with aligning to your minor axis though, so that's definitely where you're going to want to invest more of your effort. Make sure that you place each ellipse entirely on the minor axis - you've got a few that have the minor axis stop halfway through instead.
Polypat
2017-06-15 21:50
Did the 250 Cylinder challenge, because I felt while doing the form intersection exercise I felt I wanted to be draw ellipses more confidently.
http://imgur.com/a/fB2Gx
Thanks you in advance for the feedback!
Uncomfortable
2017-06-16 14:18
Pretty nice work! Congratulations on completing this challenge. Here are a couple recommendations as you continue to move forwards:
I noticed that for a lot of these constructions, you drew your ellipses around the ends of the minor axis line, with the minor axis starting and ending from the center of the ellipses on either side. Instead, try having the ellipses sit such that they are completely on top of the minor axis, with the line cutting through them completely. This will give you a better sense of their alignment, and will allow you to more easily spot instances where the ellipse isn't quite cut into two equal, symmetrical halves.
Try your hand at constructing cylinders from boxes as well. This video (linked in the challenge notes) should help if you haven't watched it already. Boxes are much easier to construct when dealing with more complex systems of forms, so starting with a box and then building a cylinder inside of it can help considerably to keep things aligned nicely, and positioned exactly where you want them.
Juanmilon
2017-06-23 10:01
Here's my cylinder challenge: http://imgur.com/a/czL2o
Drawing ellipses freehand is so damn hard... I screwed up so many times, I discarded half of the cylinders I draw in a day sometimes, I keep working on my ellipses each day, hoping to get better and some day repeat this challenge without as much effort :(
Thanks in advance, sir.
Uncomfortable
2017-06-24 02:00
Ellipses certainly are challenging, but from what I'm seeing you're doing a pretty good job of it. I mean, I guess the ones you discarded may have been worse, but it's important to remember that mistakes and blunders are totally par for the course. They're not just inevitable - they're necessary.
Your cylinder constructions are looking very solid, and I particularly like some of the variations you've implemented here - like drawing several cylinders on a single minor axis. I'm also pleased to see that you made several attempts at starting with a box. Some more of these would definitely be better, as this approach tends to be very useful in later lessons (like lesson 6), but you're doing great as it is.
The only thing I want to point out is that you do have a lot of cylinders where your minor axis extends from the center of each ellipse. Remember that the purpose of the minor axis is to help with alignment, so actually drawing each ellipse so it falls entirely on the minor axis (being cut through completely by it) is going to be much more useful in terms of gauging whether or not it was lined up correctly. Being able to see whether or not you did it correctly is definitely a big part of the learning process.
Anyway, great work. I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. By the way - thanks for increasing your pledge! I really appreciate it.
Juanmilon
2017-06-24 06:45
thanks to you for the critique
Loktor
2017-06-24 22:24
After doing most of the second lesson (up until intersections), i decided that i should also do the cylinder challenge to improve upon my ellipses :)
Was quite challenging at times but really helped again to get more confident with placing ellipses at the correct locations and with fitting degrees :D
One thing i noticed during the challenge is that i tend to draw to many rounds on my ellipses if they are not fitting, especially for the ones inside the boxes, i will try to limit that to two to three rounds in the future practices :)
So here it is: http://imgur.com/a/mtoPR
And thanks in advance again for giving me feedback :)
Uncomfortable
2017-06-26 00:42
Nice work! I can definitely see that you struggled in certain areas, but your confidence definitely improved over the whole set. I certainly agree that your work has a tendency to get a little hairy, especially when you lose confidence in the shape of what you're drawing. I definitely encourage you to limit yourself to two or three rounds tops (two is really optimal), as you're planning to do. Also try and slow down when applying weight to your straight lines. I don't mean slow down when executing, but rather, try to draw less and spend more time planning and ghosting through that motion before executing. I definitely noticed hairiness here too, where you seemed to go over and over and over a line, seemingly dealing with inaccuracy by drawing more rather than taking a step back and thinking through the process.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that you should be sure to give this video (linked in the challenge page) a watch if you haven't already. It covers how to construct ellipses inside of planes, which you don't seem to be doing correctly. There's two major criteria described in that video, and it's an important thing to internalize as you move forwards.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete. Keep up the good work.
Loktor
2017-06-26 20:07
Thank you for the feedback, your on point with what your saying :) after i thought about it i really did draw most of them thicker because i didn't match them perfectly sometimes probably because i didn't plan them good enough.
As for the Ellipses inside of planes i have a few question, as far as i understood the two criterias are that the minor axis of the ellipses results from the two center points of the ellipses and should point directly towards one vanishing point. (Like i drew in the image below for point 1. in red)
And the second point (Nr. 2 in red the drawing below) is that the ellipse should touch the points directly above each other according to the vanishing points? (e.q. for two point or three point perspective these wouldn't necessarily be straight lines like i drew below in one point perspective)?
Also one more thing i noticed was that i had a hard time to place the ellipses inside the Box, e.q. that the minor axis was aligned in a way that i was unable to place the ellipse fittingly and also touch the top/bottom correctly for example for 205 in my original submission, is this due to the fact that this area is not a square and instead a rectangle, e.q. for cylinders should the planes be squares in perspective? and then i should be able to align them correctly (Nr. 3 in the drawing below for an additional example)?
For my cylinders in boxes from 241-245 did i also make these mistakes that you mentioned there (besides 242?)?, for them i tried to match the minor axis with the vanishing points and to align the ellipses so that they hit the bottom and the top aligned with the approx. vanishing points, is there anything else i am missing?
http://imgur.com/TR84M6U
Thx again for pointing out my mistakes it really helps me out and got me to invest more time to understand it even better :)
Uncomfortable
2017-06-27 02:44
Those are indeed the criteria to which I'm referring. In one and two point perspective, the contact points above and below the ellipse to its enclosing plane are indeed going to be directly above and below each other. It's three point perspective where this changes slightly, with the introduction of a vertical vanishing point. In all three cases, the contact points need to be aligned to the VP, it just so happens that in one and two point perspective, the VP is at infinity so those lines run perfectly up and down.
You are correct that when you are unable to draw an ellipse that fits both criteria, it means that given the two vanishing points that define the box itself, the face enclosing your ellipse is not perfectly square. This actually makes it quite challenging to figure out how to draw a perfect square/circle in perspective once your vanishing points have already been defined. For the most part we rely on getting it close enough, though we do improve on this with practice.
For those particular cylinders, 241 and 243 look pretty solid. 244 feels like it's a little slanted, as does 245.
Loktor
2017-06-27 05:22
Great then i think i understand it :) now i just need to put it into practice, really appreciate the quick feedback (even tho your really busy atm)
Ozelotl
2017-07-04 21:23
Hi Uncomfortable,
I did some 250 cylinders while practicing insects :D
Imgur album
I had a problem with cylinders coming out squashed at the start but figured it out I hope.
(I started with a small degree on the first ellipses but went with a large amount of foreshortening which contradicts itself as small degree says I'm seeing the cylinder more from its side while large amount of foreshortening tells me it goes into depth)
Other than that I only have to say that superimposing ellipses is hard, especially drawn through ones.
Thank you once again for your time,
Ozelotl
Edit:
With the additional page I was going for something like the advanced boxes but for cylinders, do you think it makes sense as an exercise?
Uncomfortable
2017-07-05 14:35
Generally you're doing quite well. I especially do like those sliced cylinders, I think it's a great way to push the exercise a little further and test your ability to control your ellipses.
Going back to the cylinders in boxes, I did notice that you were a little inconsistent in how you placed your ellipses inside of their enclosing planes. In a handful of cases, you've got ellipses that float more arbitrarily within that space. You'll want to make sure that your ellipses touch all four edges of the enclosing plane (or come as close to that as you can manage), while also matching the criteria outlined in this video.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Keep up the good work!
Ozelotl
2017-07-07 11:26
Thank you for the feedback,
I think I messed up a lot of the boxes already by not thinking about the fact that one side of it should represent a square and then got even sloppier because of that.
I will practice those more and give the video you linked another watch now that I had some practice.
Thanks again, see you hopefully soon on lesson 4 :)
CorenSV
2017-07-08 19:04
and here are my 250 cylinders. done in boxes as asked :)
Here
I'm still have quite a bit of trouble with my unsure lines I think. But I hope some progress has been made.
Uncomfortable
2017-07-09 01:05
I honestly disagree. I think they're looking great. Your lines are confident, your ellipses are even and well placed, and your forms look pretty solid. Keep up the great work! I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
Tarrazan
2017-07-09 20:17
Here it is :D: http://imgur.com/a/RKHpV
Moonchild567
2017-07-09 21:04
Hey uncomfortable! I started with a few exercises on lesson 2, but I chose to do the 250 cylinders first. I had some difficulties with those in the boxes. Number 238: Should I elongate the elips to the corners ? I watched the videos and I am not sure if I did the right thing on paper. Sometimes I got sloppy and insecure. http://imgur.com/a/FWLWP
Thanks in advance.