Very nice work! Your cylinders feel well constructed and solid, and I'm pleased to see you experimenting with a variety of ways to build them. Consider the challenge complete!
Nice work pushing through and completing the challenge. There's two points however that you can definitely work on, and to an extent you already touched on one of them:
First and foremost, you're definitely exaggerating the degree shift between ends a lot. Keep in mind what the degree of an ellipse means - each ellipse represents a circle, and its degree signifies how it's oriented relative to the viewer, whether it's facing away or straight towards them. If the degree changes a lot in a small space, you're going to get the impression that the cylinder must somehow be bending. Technically speaking, due to the nature of vision that's something our eyes do perceive, but to such a small degree that our brains are able to ignore it (at least until the scale of things get really, really big). It's very similar to how foreshortening on boxes can get too dramatic (which also is reserved for things set at a very large scale). I totally get that you exaggerated those ends so you'd be conscious of the shift, but try and reel yourself back.
You mentioned that you struggled with drawing ellipses at different angles, and this is very clear. More specifically, what you need to work on is being able to draw a line, and then draw an ellipse on it such that the line serves as the ellipse's minor axis, cutting it into two equal, symmetrical halves down its narrower dimension. You very rarely achieve this in these cylinders, and in many cases I believe it's something that you're not 100% conscious of.
As I said, you've done a good job of pushing yourself and finishing the challenge. You've got plenty of room to improve, but you do have time - these cylinders will be extremely relevant come lesson 6 and 7, but aside from a sprinkling of them in lesson 2 you'll have a stretch where you can keep fitting them in as warmups so as to keep working at these problems.
Ultimately the solution to any issue is an awareness of it, repeated, conscious attempts at facing it, and time.
Looking good! I'm glad to see that you experimented with both construction approaches, and that you're getting pretty good at aligning your ellipses against a preset minor axis. Keep up the great work.
[deleted]
2016-07-25 20:23
Decided to do this in between doing the homework for Lesson 4
One thing that jumps out at me is that through the entire set, you're not extending your minor axis through the entire length of the cylinder. The purpose of that minor axis is to align the ellipses such that it cuts both ellipses into two equal, symmetrical halves. If your minor axis doesn't cut all the way through, it becomes significantly harder to align your ellipse properly. Also, I'm noticing that you tend to either skip drawing through your ellipse entirely, or you draw through your ellipses, and then try to draw another ellipse around it to clean it up. I am strongly against clean-up passes that replace the more confident linework, as people generally draw those more slowly and carefully, leading to less evenly shaped ellipses.
Lastly, I do think you've got a ways to go in terms of practicing your ghosted lines - the lines that connect the ellipses tend to wobble and waver here and there, which greatly undermines the solidity of the overall form.
In general, I think your doing this challenge was a good decision - it's brought to light some things you should continue to work on. Don't forget that the exercises from the first two lessons are things you should continue practicing regularly as warmups as you continue to push through the other lessons.
Anyway, consider this challenge complete.
[deleted]
2016-07-27 20:25
Yeah, it had been a while since I had gone back and practiced some of the previous exercises, will have to get them back into the routine. I did do another page of cylinders as a warm-up yesterday and I think they are a little bit better, obviously still need to work on them a lot though.
By the way, do you prefer Imgur or Dropbox submissions? Happened to be away from a laptop this time, hence DB, but happy to use whatever is faster for you if there's a preference!
Definitely imgur, by a mile. Dropbox's image-viewing interface is somewhat clunkier, and imgur has pretty smooth integration into reddit via reddit enhanced suite (or whatever RES stands for, I forget).
Anywho, onto your cylinders. Generally pretty good, but I've got a couple things to suggest:
Have your minor axes cut all the way through the cylinders. When they only penetrate about halfway into each ellipse, you're naturally going to have a much more difficult time identifying areas where the ellipses don't quite align properly (remember we want the lines to cut the ellipses into two equal, symmetrical halves). Ideally you want it to go all the way through both ellipses, like this: http://drawabox.com/images/lesson1/cylinder4.jpg.
Draw through all of your ellipses, and don't worry about drawing over them to clean them up. I see many where you just drew around the shape once and stopped, and others where you drew through them, but then attempted to draw a cleaner ellipse around them the second time. Drawing through them encourages you to maintain a confident, smooth pace. That is of course the first priority, after which you want to start leaning towards tightening the ellipse up. If you give up on that and default to not drawing through them, you'll end up with slightly awkward, slightly uneven ellipses.
I do see a lot of cylinders that have some pretty stark differences between the degrees of the two ends. It's true that your nearer end should have a smaller degree, but this is very similar to how when drawing a box, the near plane is larger than the far plane - but not by a huge amount. When the difference is massive, we end up with very dramatic foreshortening, which speaks to a generally large scale for the drawing as a whole. Same thing applies to your degrees - if you end up with a dramatically skinnier ellipse on one end than the other, it's going to tell your viewer's eye that the scale is much larger than you likely intend. Long story short, be subtle about that difference.
I believe that for now, you'd probably benefit a fair bit from taking a ruler and drawing in the correct minor axis, from end to end, for each cylinder. You'll find that many of yours are off by varying degrees, and this awareness will help you remain aware of the issue, so you'll be less likely to repeat it in the future.
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Hello, Uncomfortable. Here is my submission: http://imgur.com/a/uQgCd. I have to say this homework contributed a lot to my understanding of the previous one (the boxes challenge). One may draw lines and put them under perspective randomly and somehow it looks ok... But when you add a cylinder to it... you realize that the box was tilted, askew or too cut-up on a single side; it looks wrong. The cylinder adds the right perspective. I have learned a lot from this challenge. Thank you.
Looking great! Adding the ellipses/contour curves along the length of the cylinders also seems to be a pretty great approach. Generally your constructions and corrections look solid, and you've clearly gained a lot from this exercise.
Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
I tried to focus a lot more on using the ghost method, and while i sometimes slipped because i just didn't focus on it, i feel like it's gotten a lot more natural for me to do.
I don't know if there is a big difference from the first cyllinders to the last, but i feel a lot more secure in drawing them now.
Your cylinders are coming along well. When it comes to the ghosting method though, one thing to keep in mind is that you apply that process of thinking and planning for every single mark. Meaning, when your pen is lifted from the page, the mark is finished, and the next time your pen touches down, it should be after you've had the chance to think through your actions. I'm saying this specifically because of the habit you have of correcting lines, and immediately reinforcing them with an additional mark.
For the straight lines in your cylinders, the majority of those on these pages are made up of multiple marks, instead of just one. That's a big sign of this bad habit - stop yourself from drawing by reflex. Even if the mark is incorrect, it doesn't matter. You mustn't draw more than one mark for every line.
There's one other point that I believe should help - it's true that in the lesson, I point out that the end that is closer to the viewer should have a smaller degree (be skinnier) than the far end. You are definitely doing this, but you are exaggerating it too much. It's very similar to the idea of the near/far planes of a box. If you use dramatic perspective (where the far plane is way significantly smaller than the near plane), you're communicating to the viewer that the scale of this box is very large. Think about it like looking at the top of a tall building from the ground level - the roof is going to appear tiny. A smaller box more relatable in size to the viewer however is going to have a near and far plane that are fairly similar in size, with the far plane only being slightly smaller.
This principle applies to cylinders as well. Of course, the size difference of the near/far ends works the same, but so does the shift in the degree. If the degree changes substantially, it's going to feel like the cylinder itself is bending, which is a distortion that can only happen if the cylinder is massive (or if it's actually not straight).
So keep that in mind when you construct cylinders in the future. Aside from that, your cylinders are improving, and generally do feel more solid. Just make sure you keep your ellipse degrees more similar, and work towards eliminating that bad habit of immediately reinforcing straight lines with extra marks.
I'm making slow & steady progress on both the 250 box and 250 cylinder challenges (as a warm-up before doing other things,) but I'm hoping you can clarify something about line weights with ink.
You emphasize adding extra weight to the edges of forms, but is this something I'm supposed to be doing in a single stroke, or should I be going back over my edges multiple times to reinforce them? It seems difficult to really emphasize some lines over others with a felt-tip pen without re-tracing my strokes.
If I am supposed to be laying in the correct amount of thickness with my initial stroke and then not touching them again, how does this work when I'm "drawing through" my ellipses? Especially when dealing with the far face of an ellipse - logic would dictate that I should only thicken the half of the far ellipse that's not occluded, but I don't see how I can do this correctly while also drawing through them.
Ohhh lord no - you're definitely not supposed to lay in the correct weight with your initial stroke. It's meant to be separated into phases - do your full drawing at more or less the same weight (no conscious variation), and then go back over it after you're done to add weight in certain key areas, similar to the super imposed lines exercise.
You may be getting confused because I often stress the importance of not immediately reinforcing lines after drawing them. That's a different matter altogether, and relates to the habit people tend to have, drawing a line and then immediately following it up with another stroke as a sort of reflex, with no conscious planning or thought going into it. Since adding line weight is separated from the initial drawing phase, and you're consciously planning out where you want to add weight, it's not related to this habit.
Your cylinders are coming along well. The only significant thing that I noticed that you should work on is that your ellipses tend to be more or less identical in terms of their degrees - if you recall from the notes there, the end closer to the viewer is usually a little bit narrower. Not by a significant amount, but a little more than you've done here. Keep that in mind as you move forwards. Aside from that, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Your cylinders are coming along well, so congratulations on completing this challenge. One thing I do want to stress - and frankly you improve on this as you go through the set, but it's still well worth mentioning - is the importance of aligning your ellipses to the minor axis of your cylinder.
I think one major factor in your having trouble with this is the fact that your minor axes don't penetrate all the way through your cylinders, they stop at the center point. This makes sense to a degree, since you've been very diligent about constructing each one from a box, and therefore you found your minor axis by connecting the central points of the two opposite planes. The downside is that since the line doesn't penetrate all the way through your ellipse, it can be very difficult at times to even notice when your ellipses aren't aligned correctly.
Another contributing factor is that you may be relying a little too much on the planes of the box when it comes to drawing and aligning your cylinder. Keep in mind that the box exists primarily to build the minor axis. Once that's done, the minor axis takes over in terms of alignment, and you may find in certain situations that the alignment achieved by using the minor axis does not align perfectly to the box. At this point, you should focus on the box existing as more of a loose suggestion for scale rather than trusting it for alignment.
Like I said, you improve on this as you go through the set, and many of your later cylinders and ellipses are markedly better. This is still a concern though, and definitely something you should be conscious and aware of at all times.
Keep up the great work, and consider this challenge complete.
I've finished the cylinders. Towards the end i've started to make one side flatter than the other especially when it needed a bigger motion... i was compensation i suppose. well i will do a few each day as a warm up. http://imgur.com/a/5g6LZ
Looking pretty good. For the most part you're keeping a pretty good relationship between the two ends of the cylinder, maintaining a more subtle shift in degree (I assume that's what you mean by making one side flatter than the other). It behaves a lot like foreshortening, in that if you use foreshortening that is too dramatic, it'll read as being ridiculously large in scale.
Anyway, like I said, you're doing good. Keep it up, and consider this challenge complete.
Looking good, I have just one recommendation. If you look at my step-by-step example on the challenge page of how to construct a cylinder, you'll notice that I don't position my ellipses on the end points of the minor axis, but rather have them sit on the minor axis such that it penetrates all the way through. This makes it considerably easier to get the alignment right. Your alignments generally appear to be fairly well done, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
I am slooowly coming to kind of love linework -- which feeling is entirely independent of the quality of mine :D but still. Not that I don't also rage and scream at it, ofc, but at least... sometimes I have a glimpse of what it could be. Someday. Many ellipses from now.
That said, I could use some advice on lineweights, both in using them and in putting them there. I cannot seem to superimpose curves to save my life. Is there some trick to it, beyond more swirly lines like the first part of lesson 1? Should I be adding successive passes in a single stroke per line, like they were drawn to start with, or is it ok to go about it as with drawing plant stems and have several sections? Do I ghost the whole ellipse and then only touch down for half? ...and how terrible is it to sometimes give in and cheat with a brush pen for the thickest bits? And then, am I getting too fancypants with my experiments? 150+ have a lot of WHAT IF I DO THIS with lineweights, but I don't have the eye to evaluate the results. Which, I guess, is why you're the teacher and not me. ;)
As always: thanks, internet dude. You're the best. Happy almost September!
Experimenting is always good, so never shy away from that. Your work here is generally really quite good. With the line weights... there's no real trick to them, to be honest - it's a lot of practice, but I probably would go about it more like the stems, in sections, rather than trying to reproduce an entire ellipse on top. That said, It would probably still be helpful to try and do a modified version of the super imposed lines exercise, drawing an ellipse, then drawing another ellipse on top of it and trying to match them up.
One thing I do want to mention is that you are a little heavy-handed with your line weights right now. Try and be a little more subtle. For example, 214 is looking pretty good as far as line weight goes (even though your line was off by just a little bit when adding more weight, it still looks okay). Alternatively, 248 is waaaay too heavy - but I think you probably knew that.
In general though you're moving in the right direction and are making some solid progress. Keep working on those weights, on those constructions, and also on tightening up your ellipses whilst maintaining the smooth, even shape.
Keep up the great work, and consider this challenge complete!
Woo! Thanks for the tips. I've noticed my lineweights getting heavier and heavier, too, so I'll keep an eye on them.
Here's a different question: I keep having stupid hand-achey/tendinitis issues, which mean week+ pauses in drawing. Ugh. Bah. Do not like. But I noticed that lesson 14 switches over to digital, and leans more towards analysis than the actual detail of making marks on a paper. I have an ipad, and a ("dumb") stylus, and even when my hand hurts I can manage to fingerpaint if nothing else. Could I work on lesson 3 (in ink) and lesson 14 (ipad) in parallel? You advise against buying the cintiq-style tablets in the lesson, but I'm not clear as to whether that's for reasons of pestilence & villainy beyond their cost. (I do have a normal tablet-style intuos tablet, too, but holding that pen isn't less hand-achey than holding an ink pen.)
By a 'dumb' stylus, do you mean one that's not pressure sensitive? I don't recommend drawing on anything that doesn't have pressure sensitivity - if it does have it, and you already own it, then go ahead and use it. Note that I also allow people to use whatever media they're comfortable with for lessons 8-13, though I have plans to completely scrap and rewrite those lessons when I get the chance.
Anyway, yeah, you can do them in parallel. I don't necessarily think it's the best idea, but it's not an awful one either.
Looking pretty nice. Just a couple of important things that I'd like to remind you of:
Draw through your ellipses! Each and every one you do for my lessons. Your ellipses aren't bad, so they haven't hindered your cylinders too much, but there still is a touch of stiffness in them that comes from drawing them more slowly and carefully, rather than confidently.
When you draw your cylinders inside of boxes, you're not quite following the procedure correctly, in that you're forgetting about the minor axis. The method goes as follows: You construct a box, then find the midpoint of two opposing faces (by drawing the diagonals of those faces and finding where those diagonals intersect). Then you draw a line between those two midpoints, this line becomes your minor axis. Then you draw your ellipses aligned to that minor axis, and use the box as more of a suggestion, since the minor axis and the box will disagree with each other slightly. Lean more towards following the minor axis than the box, but use the box to determine general size/proportion.
Aside from that, nice work. Consider this challenge complete.
Hi again Uncomfortable! Here is my Lesson 2. Really felt myself improving while doing this, and at least it got me back to proper drawing after a month or two of beating around the bush. Have a nice day!
Pretty nice work! I'm glad to see the careful attention paid to the minor axis. Even in the few where you didn't draw them, I can see that you were trying to visualize them in your mind's eye. This is of course tricky business, and they didn't come out as solidly as those with explicitly drawn minor axes, but they're moving in the right direction.
There is just one thing I really want to stress - the importance of drawing through your ellipses. As I've mentioned in my lessons, I fully expect you to draw through each and every ellipse you draw for my lessons. Yours are looking decent as is, but there is some minor unnevenness in places, and some stiffness in others. When it comes to constructing cylinders, the shape of the ellipses you use is extremely important in conveying the illusion of solidity, so it's necessary to do everything you can to nail a confident, smooth ellipse. Drawing around the shape an additional time before lifting your pen will really help reinforce that muscle memory and build confidence in your muscles' ability to excel in this area.
Anyway, other than that, you've done very well. Consider this challenge complete.
Still not too happy with them by the end, but I feel they've improved from the beginning.
I find that constructing them inside a box makes a lot more sense to me in terms of geometry, but doing them with just a centreline seems to yield better results. I would like to be able to draw them well using the box method, but I suppose it's a case of practice.
I'm really glad you pushed beyond the initial 250. I think up to around that point, you were a little sloppy with how you drew your ellipses, and you perhaps weren't putting as much time and care into crafting the various components of your cylinders as you could have. This improved considerably as you got into the 300's, and by the end you seemed to definitely have a much better sense of how to approach these forms. Things take a bit of a dip right around the end though, where you're probably getting pretty exhausted. Ultimately it is very important that you focus on working when you're fresh of mind, so things don't get too sloppy, but I do understand the desire to get through tedious exercises like this.
Overall, you've done a good job. Just continue to work on your patience, taking the time to apply the ghosting method as much as is necessary before executing each mark, and so on. Keep up the good work, and consider this challenge complete.
Hi Uncomfortable! After lesson 6 you advised me to do this challenge, so I did: 250 cylinders. I was kind of reluctant to start, but I did it anyway and I'm happy I did. I realised that I didn't really know how to draw a cylinder before and this definitely helped. I hope I passed :)
Looking pretty good! I am a little bit disgruntled about you not drawing through your ellipses - they do look pretty good as is, though I really do want you to be drawing through them at least once more before lifting your pen. The other thing I wanted to mention is that your minor axis lines should penetrate all the way through both ellipses, as this makes it considerably easier to actually align your ellipse correctly. Your alignment is fine right now from what I can see, but it's a matter of taking all the steps necessary to have the best possible results.
Keep up the good work, and consider this lesson complete. I'm planning on updating lesson 7 this Saturday, so you may want to hold off on starting on it until after I've added an intro video and done a few more demos.
I'm sorry about the not drawing through.. I started on my first pages and then stopped doing it but I wasn't aware. Maybe because I started drawing smaller. I'll make sure to not forget in my future homework. Thanks for letting me know about lesson 7! I'll wait for the updated version. Thanks!
I think your cylinders are looking pretty good. There's a little bit of wavering with your ghosted lines here and there, but this will go away with time and practice. Overall though, you're doing great. The main thing to be concerned with here is the alignment of your ellipses, and this appears to be progressing nicely. You were already doing a pretty decent job of it to start with, and at this point improvement in this area will be more subtle than stark, but there definitely is growth. One thing I'm pleased to see is that though you started on the first page placing your ellipses to be centred on the ends of each minor axis line, you corrected your mistake by the second page and started placing the entirety of each ellipse on the minor axis, so that it penetrated all the way through. This is definitely much better, and results in better alignment.
Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Going through them i notice a lot of them don't have the minor axis going all the way through, i will keep that in mind going forward. Most of them are also off center and generally wonky to some degree but i think i just need more mileage and get my muscle memory trained.
Nice work! It looks like you're making some pretty solid progress! I especially liked the experimentation with the plane intersections. For the couple where you tried to fit the cylinders into boxes, or ellipses into planes, you should definitely check out the video I posted last weekend (if you haven't already): https://youtu.be/yFjrSddZiv4
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Hello there! This was quite the challenge, no wonder why I only did it twice... actually the first time I tried the challenge I didn't even draw a minor axis! So it doesn't count.
Wow, that rotated-cylinders thing on the last page is pretty mesmerizing. Overall, great work. The solidity of your cylinders really improves over the set.
One thing that definitely comes to mind is a video that I posted last week, on drawing ellipses such that they represent perfect circles in 3D space. I believe it may help round out your understanding of how ellipses can be used: https://youtu.be/yFjrSddZiv4
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
And here is the 250 cylinders .. I hope i did it a bit fine although i know it can be better but this was done before you added the new demos .. i think after seeing the demo i can draw it even better . the only thing i feel i find a bit confusing is how i put the vanishing point & draw the minor axis directing to it .. should it be near or far from the drawn cylinder which is better especially when drawing complex objects that consists a cylinder like the one in Camera
Pretty good work. The only thing I want to recommend (aside from watching that new video on ellipses in 3D space, which you clearly already have) is that you should make sure that your ellipses sit on the entire minor axis - the line should penetrate all the way through the ellipse, not just stop halfway. It makes it a little easier to gauge whether or not you've aligned your ellipse correctly in this manner.
As for your concern, for the most part I do what I can to avoid actually having vanishing points in the scene, largely because in most cases they're going to be really far off to the side, way off the page. For this reason, I tend to rely on roughly defining the general area my VP is going to be by drawing a few lines that go off towards it.
If you draw any two non-parallel lines, they'll intersect somewhere. In this way, you can use two simple lines to define where a vanishing point is going to be without actually drawing it on the page. From there, you just have to make sure that all of your other lines adhere to this same rule.
Additionally, including a horizon line can be very helpful, since we know that both of our horizontal vanishing points will sit upon this line.
Now, beyond that, defining a box is also very helpful in this regard, as it automatically defines all of our vanishing points for us (so long as the box is constructed in a way that is relatively correct, with all of the parallel lines running off towards the same point). That's why I'm very big on the importance of boxes - they define the perspective system rather completely, and enclose a space in which it is much easier to estimate what angles should be used for other lines. So, if you're trying to draw a camera with a big cylindrical lens coming off the side, you'd draw a box for the body, and then another box coming off it to contain the lens cylinder.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Keep up the good work.
Thank you so much for your generous Reply ... I am optimistic about the coming lessons & i started now to see the whole picture of the drawing process & i feel it's really all about practicing more to be confident a bout what i can draw ... thanks to you i knew a bout different resources to even further my knowledge along with your invaluable guidance .
I don't think i've dramatically improved over the set. I'm still trying to find a good balance between fluidity and accuracy while drawing my ellipses. Sometimes, they also ended up not aligned at all with my minor axis so i ignored it and tried to gauge where the bottom ellipse should be. It ended up with a lot of minor axis living a life of their own, wandering about in my cylinders :D
The thing about visible improvement is that you tend to see more of it if you're actually really bad at what you're doing. You're beyond that point - your cylinders started off pretty strong to begin with, and you seemed to grasp the concepts of what it takes to construct them. From here on in, at least in this area, your improvements will be more subtle.
On the topic of balancing fluidity and accuracy, I'd recommend leaning towards fluidity. I do see some of your ellipses still coming out a little bit stiffly, and I believe that given time and practice, it's easier to fix inaccuracy than it is to do away with an unconfident stroke. Of course, that's within reason - just try to loosen up a smidge and push on forwards and see how it goes.
There's only one other thing I'd like to point out - make sure that you're placing your ellipses such that the minor axis passes through them completely. Placing them with their centre sitting on the end point of your minor axis sure looks nice, but it's going to make it more difficult to really nail that alignment.
Anyway, like I said - you're doing great, so it's just a matter of mileage at this point. Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
I spent a day trying to loosen my ellipses, but i just lost my grasp on boxes! So that didnt go well for trying to construct in the box- I practiced boxes for a bit and got them back (working on them all over again) and then did some cylinders. As far as using the minor and major axis construction, I felt better about it but getting the degree just how I wanted is very tricky
Your start is definitely... bumpy. I was a little worried through those first couple of pages, but by the fifth or sixth page, you started to hit your stride and the forms really started to come together, and your lines gained some much needed confidence. For the most part these cylinders feel quite solid. One thing in terms of degree to keep in mind is that more often than not, you're not going to have too great a shift from between the degree of the two ellipses. This usually would relate more to some pretty dramatic perspective distortion, so it's not a common thing you'll see in a drawing, and that's why it looks a little stranger (even if you can't quite put your finger on it at the time).
On that note though, you should definitely check out this video I posted a few weeks ago if you haven't already. It relates to the idea of what the degree should be in a particular situation, especially if you're drawing those ellipses in boxes. Also, keep in mind that drawing smaller is going to make things harder on you, since you leave yourself with much less room to think through these spatial problems. In the future, try to loosen up by drawing a little larger, rather than getting stuck in those stiff little spaces where all your lines come out feeling ten times thicker because of how fat your pen is relative to the overall size of your drawing.
So in the example in the video the examples are in 2 pt perspective, In 3 point, how the boxes are drawn, aligning the contact points of the circle should be done along the relevant 3rd VP, right?
EG in the short second set the red hashes are what i used to correct which i realized were horribly inaccurate on the first batch.
Yep, that is correct. By being 'vertically aligned', I mean that they should line up to the third (vertical) VP. In the case of 2 point perspective, that'd just be straight up and down, but it would shift in 3 point.
wow that was hard. Good opportunity to improve my boxes though. I found when I came back to mark the mistakes the perspective mistakes were sticking out like a sour thumb :D
Congrats on completing the challenge. Here are a few things that will help you with this in the future:
Your ellipses are looking pretty uneven - it's a good idea to draw through your ellipses, and to draw them with a confident pace instead of doing so with a slow, belaboured stroke. As I explained in lesson 1, letting your brain course-correct while you draw will result in wobbly lines and uneven shapes. In my examples on the cylinder challenge page, I used a tool to draw those ellipses in order to better demonstrate the alignment accurately. When freehanding these ellipses - or any ellipses you draw for my lessons, you must draw through them.
This video was included at the top of the page, you should definitely check it out. It'll explain why some of your cylinders appear to be squashed.
Keep working on your application of the ghosting method in order to smooth out and straighten your lines
Draw your ellipses so that they're sitting on the minor axis line completely (as opposed to being centered around the endpoint). This way the line penetrates through the whole thing, making it easier to tell if your alignment is off.
Drawing small is definitely going to restrict the amount of space you have to think through spatial problems - consider increasing the size of your smaller drawings, maybe by 1.5x-2x.
Awesome - many thanks for the feedback! Could I ask what do you mean by "Draw your ellipses so that they're sitting on the minor axis line completely (as opposed to being centered around the endpoint). This way the line penetrates through the whole thing, making it easier to tell if your alignment is off."? Cheers!
See how the minor axis goes all the way through the ellipse? In yours, you had the minor axis line stopping in the middle of the ellipse, rather going all the way through. If you remember from the lessons thus far, the minor axis cuts an ellipse into two equal, symmetrical halves down its narrower dimension. If this is not the case, then the ellipse is misaligned. It's harder to tell if you've made a mistake with its alignment when your minor axis doesn't cut all the way through.
[deleted]
2016-10-23 03:42
Is 250 Cylinder Challenge. Or, rather, 280 Cylinder Challenge since I totally counted from 168 twice.
Looking good! Your confidence with the material and the solidity with which you capture each form definitely improved over the set. The quality of your ellipses is also improving, resulting in smoother, more consistent shapes. Keep up the great work, and consider this challenge complete.
[deleted]
2016-10-23 22:59
Thanks for the reply. I think I understood the basic idea on how to draw a cylinder through the first couple pages but continuously drew bad lines due to either 1-2mm accuracy errors or inaccurate overlays when trying to add darkness. I know I can solve both by using a pencil with multiple attempts.
Nice work! Your cylinders are coming along great. As you pushed through these, I'm sure you started to realize that sometimes some ellipses seemed to come out a little too skinny - I actually explain how to figure out which degree is appropriate in a specific situation in this video. Be sure to watch it, as it comes in handy when you start to get into more technical and specific applications of cylinders.
Anyway, keep up the solid work and consider this challenge complete.
Thank you! A short follow-up question - do you mean that some ellipses that are farther from the viewer are too skinny (while they should have a larger degree than those closer to the viewer)?
Looking pretty good! You've definitely shown some significant improvement over the set. The only suggestion I have is similar to what I mentioned for your 250 box challenge - don't take the training wheels off too early. Start with your minor axis every time, draw it with the ghosting method to ensure that it's straight, and do everything you can to align your ellipses on that axis. This last point is definitely something you're clearly struggling with, and needs a fair bit of work.
Anyway, keep it up and consider this challenge complete.
Definitely a good choice. Your work here is quite well done. As you move forwards, I do want to recommend that you play a bit with constructing cylinders inside of boxes, as you'll find that this is necessary in order to line up a cylinder to other forms. Additionally, at the beginning of lesson 7 there's two videos (aside from the intro video) that go over some techniques that relate to drawing ellipses inside of planes. Be sure to watch those before jumping into the homework. They'll help explain while some of your cylinders here feel like they're a little bit narrower than they should be (which is totally normal when approaching cylinders in this way).
Anyway, aside from that keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
I do realize that on more than just one occasion I did overdo with how many times I drew over the ellipse, but those things are so damn hard t get right just the few first times...
late into the challenge I did realize I wasn't marking the minor axis when constructing the cylinders within a box, but for most of the time it still seemed to work
my red markings are rather sloppy this time, as in many cases I didn't even know what the hell was wrong with the drawing (the box? Perspective? Ellipses?)
It has been a very exhausting challenge, but putting down that number 250 down on the page made it so satisfying :)
Once again, thank you Uncomfortable for your hard work and guidance!
Great work! And I'm glad to see that you did a lot of them inside of boxes themselves. It's still important to always include your minor axis (just makes for a very good habit that'll pay off in the long run) but technically speaking, so long as your ellipses are lined up in the planes on either side of the box correctly (meaning that the contact points are aligned correctly, which I explain here), it technically should look correct.
Anyway, your constructions are solid, and you've covered a great deal of everything that I wanted to see. Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
I'm glad that you paced yourself. As a result, I can see some considerable improvement over the set, especially when it comes to achieving correct alignment with your minor axes. I'm also glad to see that you did a whole lot of cylinders inside of boxes, as this will be a particularly useful thing to practice. Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Despite your struggles, it looks to me like you've done a pretty solid job with these cylinders, so good work there. You are getting a little lax with drawing through your ellipses though, resulting in ellipses that are a little bit stiff at times. That said, it doesn't look like your pledges on patreon have gone through since April, so you're technically no longer eligible for critiques. I'll still mark this challenge as complete, but that's definitely something to be aware of moving forwards.
Let me know if/when you get that sorted. Also, I've heard stories that fixing payment problems would result in you getting charged for all the missed months (i donno if this is true or not), so to be safe, you should cancel and repledge. Wouldn't want you to be hit by a $35 charge.
You're progressing just fine - lining up your ellipses correctly takes a great deal of practice, and this is a big step towards being able to do it more consistently. Your cylinders were are improving a fair bit, and you seem to clearly grasp the concepts and have identified the areas where you've made mistakes.
The only thing I want to point out is that you have a tendency of doubling up the straight lines along the side of the cylinders - I'm not sure if this is an attempt to add line weight or if out of that frustration, you're falling back into a habit of immediately reinforcing your marks as a reflex. Make sure each mark you put down is preplanned and considered.
Anyway, keep up the good work and congratulations on completing this challenge.
Again, I'm not too happy with the quality of the outcome, but I'll leave the critique to you. Constructing the ellipse inside a plane is still incredibly difficult. I didn't attempt that too many times as I felt it held me back from focusing on correctly practising the proper stroke for the ellipse itself.
Pretty good work. Your ellipses are definitely better here than they are in the plants exercise (as you seem to be drawing through them more consistently), though there's still a bit of stiffness that you'll have to work through. Your general cylinder constructions are solid. You do have time to work on that ellipse inside of a plane thing, as it doesn't become terribly important until lesson 6, but here's another video on the topic that may help.
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Looking good. There's definitely some improvement over the set, but I think by the last page you get kind of sloppy - take more care when drawing your minor axis, be sure to apply the ghosting method and keep everything straight and solid. Other than that, consider this challenge complete!
Pretty good work, I'm particularly pleased with the alignment of your ellipses to your minor axes. Just a few thoughts:
Try to decrease the difference in degree between the two ends of the cylinder. The far end should certainly have a larger degree, but think about what the degree represents, in terms of how that ellipse (and the circle it represents) is oriented towards the viewer. When the different is so large, it implies a lot of perspective distortion coming from the cylinder being very large in scale. This is similar to what I mentioned in your 250 box challenge critique.
Tighten up your ellipses - you're going around them too many times, I'd say start limiting yourself to two rounds.
You should also practice constructing those cylinders inside of boxes.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
Again, the new work's leagues better than your previous stuff, so that's definitely a very good sign. Your line weights seem to be much more controlled, and while your ellipses could still use some work in terms of precision, they're smooth and evenly shaped. Many of your previous ones tend to be much more stiff.
Anyway, I'll mark this challenge complete as well! Congratulations on completing all three.
Uncomfortable
2016-07-14 13:03
Last thread's been locked, so you can post your homework submissions here.
bwbgtr
2016-07-14 21:42
Here are my 250 cylinders; I've been working on this challenge concurrently with lesson 2.
Uncomfortable
2016-07-14 23:51
Very nice work! Your cylinders feel well constructed and solid, and I'm pleased to see you experimenting with a variety of ways to build them. Consider the challenge complete!
pruffins
2016-07-14 21:58
Took quite a while to finish these. I have some difficulty drawing ellipses at different angles. Anyways here it is.
http://imgur.com/a/TRYj6
Uncomfortable
2016-07-15 00:16
Nice work pushing through and completing the challenge. There's two points however that you can definitely work on, and to an extent you already touched on one of them:
First and foremost, you're definitely exaggerating the degree shift between ends a lot. Keep in mind what the degree of an ellipse means - each ellipse represents a circle, and its degree signifies how it's oriented relative to the viewer, whether it's facing away or straight towards them. If the degree changes a lot in a small space, you're going to get the impression that the cylinder must somehow be bending. Technically speaking, due to the nature of vision that's something our eyes do perceive, but to such a small degree that our brains are able to ignore it (at least until the scale of things get really, really big). It's very similar to how foreshortening on boxes can get too dramatic (which also is reserved for things set at a very large scale). I totally get that you exaggerated those ends so you'd be conscious of the shift, but try and reel yourself back.
You mentioned that you struggled with drawing ellipses at different angles, and this is very clear. More specifically, what you need to work on is being able to draw a line, and then draw an ellipse on it such that the line serves as the ellipse's minor axis, cutting it into two equal, symmetrical halves down its narrower dimension. You very rarely achieve this in these cylinders, and in many cases I believe it's something that you're not 100% conscious of.
As I said, you've done a good job of pushing yourself and finishing the challenge. You've got plenty of room to improve, but you do have time - these cylinders will be extremely relevant come lesson 6 and 7, but aside from a sprinkling of them in lesson 2 you'll have a stretch where you can keep fitting them in as warmups so as to keep working at these problems.
Ultimately the solution to any issue is an awareness of it, repeated, conscious attempts at facing it, and time.
pruffins
2016-07-15 16:56
I'll definitely incorporate ellipses and cylinders into my practice. Thanks for the advice.
Suchimo
2016-07-17 08:04
250 cylinder challenge
Thought I'd have a go at this before moving onto human figures, since you recommended it in the latest feedback to me.
Uncomfortable
2016-07-17 17:49
Looking good! I'm glad to see that you experimented with both construction approaches, and that you're getting pretty good at aligning your ellipses against a preset minor axis. Keep up the great work.
[deleted]
2016-07-25 20:23
Decided to do this in between doing the homework for Lesson 4
250 Cylinder Challenge
Uncomfortable
2016-07-25 20:40
One thing that jumps out at me is that through the entire set, you're not extending your minor axis through the entire length of the cylinder. The purpose of that minor axis is to align the ellipses such that it cuts both ellipses into two equal, symmetrical halves. If your minor axis doesn't cut all the way through, it becomes significantly harder to align your ellipse properly. Also, I'm noticing that you tend to either skip drawing through your ellipse entirely, or you draw through your ellipses, and then try to draw another ellipse around it to clean it up. I am strongly against clean-up passes that replace the more confident linework, as people generally draw those more slowly and carefully, leading to less evenly shaped ellipses.
Lastly, I do think you've got a ways to go in terms of practicing your ghosted lines - the lines that connect the ellipses tend to wobble and waver here and there, which greatly undermines the solidity of the overall form.
In general, I think your doing this challenge was a good decision - it's brought to light some things you should continue to work on. Don't forget that the exercises from the first two lessons are things you should continue practicing regularly as warmups as you continue to push through the other lessons.
Anyway, consider this challenge complete.
[deleted]
2016-07-27 20:25
Yeah, it had been a while since I had gone back and practiced some of the previous exercises, will have to get them back into the routine. I did do another page of cylinders as a warm-up yesterday and I think they are a little bit better, obviously still need to work on them a lot though.
Uncomfortable
2016-07-28 00:44
Yup, the alignment is a little bit better.
slavingia
2016-08-03 21:40
Here you go: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/b12norsem915g84/AACuoyth9IMVl-a1yGe9mxt7a?dl=0
By the way, do you prefer Imgur or Dropbox submissions? Happened to be away from a laptop this time, hence DB, but happy to use whatever is faster for you if there's a preference!
Uncomfortable
2016-08-03 21:49
Definitely imgur, by a mile. Dropbox's image-viewing interface is somewhat clunkier, and imgur has pretty smooth integration into reddit via reddit enhanced suite (or whatever RES stands for, I forget).
Anywho, onto your cylinders. Generally pretty good, but I've got a couple things to suggest:
Have your minor axes cut all the way through the cylinders. When they only penetrate about halfway into each ellipse, you're naturally going to have a much more difficult time identifying areas where the ellipses don't quite align properly (remember we want the lines to cut the ellipses into two equal, symmetrical halves). Ideally you want it to go all the way through both ellipses, like this: http://drawabox.com/images/lesson1/cylinder4.jpg.
Draw through all of your ellipses, and don't worry about drawing over them to clean them up. I see many where you just drew around the shape once and stopped, and others where you drew through them, but then attempted to draw a cleaner ellipse around them the second time. Drawing through them encourages you to maintain a confident, smooth pace. That is of course the first priority, after which you want to start leaning towards tightening the ellipse up. If you give up on that and default to not drawing through them, you'll end up with slightly awkward, slightly uneven ellipses.
I do see a lot of cylinders that have some pretty stark differences between the degrees of the two ends. It's true that your nearer end should have a smaller degree, but this is very similar to how when drawing a box, the near plane is larger than the far plane - but not by a huge amount. When the difference is massive, we end up with very dramatic foreshortening, which speaks to a generally large scale for the drawing as a whole. Same thing applies to your degrees - if you end up with a dramatically skinnier ellipse on one end than the other, it's going to tell your viewer's eye that the scale is much larger than you likely intend. Long story short, be subtle about that difference.
I believe that for now, you'd probably benefit a fair bit from taking a ruler and drawing in the correct minor axis, from end to end, for each cylinder. You'll find that many of yours are off by varying degrees, and this awareness will help you remain aware of the issue, so you'll be less likely to repeat it in the future.
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
slavingia
2016-08-03 22:04
Speedy. Thank you. I'll do that before moving on to everyday objects.
poussinbleu
2016-08-07 22:46
Hello, Uncomfortable. Here is my submission: http://imgur.com/a/uQgCd. I have to say this homework contributed a lot to my understanding of the previous one (the boxes challenge). One may draw lines and put them under perspective randomly and somehow it looks ok... But when you add a cylinder to it... you realize that the box was tilted, askew or too cut-up on a single side; it looks wrong. The cylinder adds the right perspective. I have learned a lot from this challenge. Thank you.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-08 19:41
Looking great! Adding the ellipses/contour curves along the length of the cylinders also seems to be a pretty great approach. Generally your constructions and corrections look solid, and you've clearly gained a lot from this exercise.
Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Tarrazan
2016-08-13 11:55
Here it is: http://imgur.com/a/BEzKI
I tried to focus a lot more on using the ghost method, and while i sometimes slipped because i just didn't focus on it, i feel like it's gotten a lot more natural for me to do.
I don't know if there is a big difference from the first cyllinders to the last, but i feel a lot more secure in drawing them now.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-14 03:07
Your cylinders are coming along well. When it comes to the ghosting method though, one thing to keep in mind is that you apply that process of thinking and planning for every single mark. Meaning, when your pen is lifted from the page, the mark is finished, and the next time your pen touches down, it should be after you've had the chance to think through your actions. I'm saying this specifically because of the habit you have of correcting lines, and immediately reinforcing them with an additional mark.
For the straight lines in your cylinders, the majority of those on these pages are made up of multiple marks, instead of just one. That's a big sign of this bad habit - stop yourself from drawing by reflex. Even if the mark is incorrect, it doesn't matter. You mustn't draw more than one mark for every line.
There's one other point that I believe should help - it's true that in the lesson, I point out that the end that is closer to the viewer should have a smaller degree (be skinnier) than the far end. You are definitely doing this, but you are exaggerating it too much. It's very similar to the idea of the near/far planes of a box. If you use dramatic perspective (where the far plane is way significantly smaller than the near plane), you're communicating to the viewer that the scale of this box is very large. Think about it like looking at the top of a tall building from the ground level - the roof is going to appear tiny. A smaller box more relatable in size to the viewer however is going to have a near and far plane that are fairly similar in size, with the far plane only being slightly smaller.
This principle applies to cylinders as well. Of course, the size difference of the near/far ends works the same, but so does the shift in the degree. If the degree changes substantially, it's going to feel like the cylinder itself is bending, which is a distortion that can only happen if the cylinder is massive (or if it's actually not straight).
So keep that in mind when you construct cylinders in the future. Aside from that, your cylinders are improving, and generally do feel more solid. Just make sure you keep your ellipse degrees more similar, and work towards eliminating that bad habit of immediately reinforcing straight lines with extra marks.
blankdiploma
2016-08-14 08:21
Hey Uncomfortable -
I'm making slow & steady progress on both the 250 box and 250 cylinder challenges (as a warm-up before doing other things,) but I'm hoping you can clarify something about line weights with ink.
You emphasize adding extra weight to the edges of forms, but is this something I'm supposed to be doing in a single stroke, or should I be going back over my edges multiple times to reinforce them? It seems difficult to really emphasize some lines over others with a felt-tip pen without re-tracing my strokes.
If I am supposed to be laying in the correct amount of thickness with my initial stroke and then not touching them again, how does this work when I'm "drawing through" my ellipses? Especially when dealing with the far face of an ellipse - logic would dictate that I should only thicken the half of the far ellipse that's not occluded, but I don't see how I can do this correctly while also drawing through them.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-14 15:59
Ohhh lord no - you're definitely not supposed to lay in the correct weight with your initial stroke. It's meant to be separated into phases - do your full drawing at more or less the same weight (no conscious variation), and then go back over it after you're done to add weight in certain key areas, similar to the super imposed lines exercise.
You may be getting confused because I often stress the importance of not immediately reinforcing lines after drawing them. That's a different matter altogether, and relates to the habit people tend to have, drawing a line and then immediately following it up with another stroke as a sort of reflex, with no conscious planning or thought going into it. Since adding line weight is separated from the initial drawing phase, and you're consciously planning out where you want to add weight, it's not related to this habit.
blankdiploma
2016-08-15 01:02
Oh, thank god. I'm doing it right, then. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't about to reinforce an atrocious habit 500 times. Thanks!
Lobachevskiy
2016-08-20 14:01
https://imgur.com/a/DdI5a
Well, here it is. Generally speaking I had been drawing through ellipses a little too much, though I made some effort not to closer to the end.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-20 16:17
Your cylinders are coming along well. The only significant thing that I noticed that you should work on is that your ellipses tend to be more or less identical in terms of their degrees - if you recall from the notes there, the end closer to the viewer is usually a little bit narrower. Not by a significant amount, but a little more than you've done here. Keep that in mind as you move forwards. Aside from that, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
disies
2016-08-24 14:52
https://imgur.com/a/Fzg3A
Uncomfortable
2016-08-24 19:13
Your cylinders are coming along well, so congratulations on completing this challenge. One thing I do want to stress - and frankly you improve on this as you go through the set, but it's still well worth mentioning - is the importance of aligning your ellipses to the minor axis of your cylinder.
I think one major factor in your having trouble with this is the fact that your minor axes don't penetrate all the way through your cylinders, they stop at the center point. This makes sense to a degree, since you've been very diligent about constructing each one from a box, and therefore you found your minor axis by connecting the central points of the two opposite planes. The downside is that since the line doesn't penetrate all the way through your ellipse, it can be very difficult at times to even notice when your ellipses aren't aligned correctly.
Another contributing factor is that you may be relying a little too much on the planes of the box when it comes to drawing and aligning your cylinder. Keep in mind that the box exists primarily to build the minor axis. Once that's done, the minor axis takes over in terms of alignment, and you may find in certain situations that the alignment achieved by using the minor axis does not align perfectly to the box. At this point, you should focus on the box existing as more of a loose suggestion for scale rather than trusting it for alignment.
Like I said, you improve on this as you go through the set, and many of your later cylinders and ellipses are markedly better. This is still a concern though, and definitely something you should be conscious and aware of at all times.
Keep up the great work, and consider this challenge complete.
Maxigati
2016-08-27 17:53
Hello,
I've finished the cylinders. Towards the end i've started to make one side flatter than the other especially when it needed a bigger motion... i was compensation i suppose. well i will do a few each day as a warm up. http://imgur.com/a/5g6LZ
Uncomfortable
2016-08-27 18:44
Looking pretty good. For the most part you're keeping a pretty good relationship between the two ends of the cylinder, maintaining a more subtle shift in degree (I assume that's what you mean by making one side flatter than the other). It behaves a lot like foreshortening, in that if you use foreshortening that is too dramatic, it'll read as being ridiculously large in scale.
Anyway, like I said, you're doing good. Keep it up, and consider this challenge complete.
Maxigati
2016-08-27 19:21
Thanks for the comments, Actually what i meant is that along the long axis one side of the ellipse was flatter than the other
Ezechield
2016-08-29 16:23
Hello ! I'm back from hollidays and fully motivated !
Here is my submission for the 250 cylinder chalenge.
Thanks for your work !
Uncomfortable
2016-08-29 16:52
Looking good, I have just one recommendation. If you look at my step-by-step example on the challenge page of how to construct a cylinder, you'll notice that I don't position my ellipses on the end points of the minor axis, but rather have them sit on the minor axis such that it penetrates all the way through. This makes it considerably easier to get the alignment right. Your alignments generally appear to be fairly well done, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
Ezechield
2016-08-29 17:09
Ok I can understand, I'll give it a try !
Thanks
Tis_Unfortunate
2016-08-30 05:16
Welp... imgur
I am slooowly coming to kind of love linework -- which feeling is entirely independent of the quality of mine :D but still. Not that I don't also rage and scream at it, ofc, but at least... sometimes I have a glimpse of what it could be. Someday. Many ellipses from now.
That said, I could use some advice on lineweights, both in using them and in putting them there. I cannot seem to superimpose curves to save my life. Is there some trick to it, beyond more swirly lines like the first part of lesson 1? Should I be adding successive passes in a single stroke per line, like they were drawn to start with, or is it ok to go about it as with drawing plant stems and have several sections? Do I ghost the whole ellipse and then only touch down for half? ...and how terrible is it to sometimes give in and cheat with a brush pen for the thickest bits? And then, am I getting too fancypants with my experiments? 150+ have a lot of WHAT IF I DO THIS with lineweights, but I don't have the eye to evaluate the results. Which, I guess, is why you're the teacher and not me. ;)
As always: thanks, internet dude. You're the best. Happy almost September!
Uncomfortable
2016-08-30 17:15
Experimenting is always good, so never shy away from that. Your work here is generally really quite good. With the line weights... there's no real trick to them, to be honest - it's a lot of practice, but I probably would go about it more like the stems, in sections, rather than trying to reproduce an entire ellipse on top. That said, It would probably still be helpful to try and do a modified version of the super imposed lines exercise, drawing an ellipse, then drawing another ellipse on top of it and trying to match them up.
One thing I do want to mention is that you are a little heavy-handed with your line weights right now. Try and be a little more subtle. For example, 214 is looking pretty good as far as line weight goes (even though your line was off by just a little bit when adding more weight, it still looks okay). Alternatively, 248 is waaaay too heavy - but I think you probably knew that.
In general though you're moving in the right direction and are making some solid progress. Keep working on those weights, on those constructions, and also on tightening up your ellipses whilst maintaining the smooth, even shape.
Keep up the great work, and consider this challenge complete!
Tis_Unfortunate
2016-08-30 20:04
Woo! Thanks for the tips. I've noticed my lineweights getting heavier and heavier, too, so I'll keep an eye on them.
Here's a different question: I keep having stupid hand-achey/tendinitis issues, which mean week+ pauses in drawing. Ugh. Bah. Do not like. But I noticed that lesson 14 switches over to digital, and leans more towards analysis than the actual detail of making marks on a paper. I have an ipad, and a ("dumb") stylus, and even when my hand hurts I can manage to fingerpaint if nothing else. Could I work on lesson 3 (in ink) and lesson 14 (ipad) in parallel? You advise against buying the cintiq-style tablets in the lesson, but I'm not clear as to whether that's for reasons of pestilence & villainy beyond their cost. (I do have a normal tablet-style intuos tablet, too, but holding that pen isn't less hand-achey than holding an ink pen.)
Uncomfortable
2016-08-30 20:08
By a 'dumb' stylus, do you mean one that's not pressure sensitive? I don't recommend drawing on anything that doesn't have pressure sensitivity - if it does have it, and you already own it, then go ahead and use it. Note that I also allow people to use whatever media they're comfortable with for lessons 8-13, though I have plans to completely scrap and rewrite those lessons when I get the chance.
Anyway, yeah, you can do them in parallel. I don't necessarily think it's the best idea, but it's not an awful one either.
Terminon
2016-09-13 06:14
Here is my take on the cylinder challenge: http://imgur.com/a/S1s3h
There is not much variation in these cylinders, and the few times i
constructed them using boxes, the boxes were rather isometric,
without any recognizable distortion. I found Tis_Unfortunates homework
really inspiring on how to creatively vary the different ways of
applying perspective. Definitely taking it as inspiration for the next
batches of practice cylinders.
Uncomfortable
2016-09-13 20:48
Looking pretty nice. Just a couple of important things that I'd like to remind you of:
Draw through your ellipses! Each and every one you do for my lessons. Your ellipses aren't bad, so they haven't hindered your cylinders too much, but there still is a touch of stiffness in them that comes from drawing them more slowly and carefully, rather than confidently.
When you draw your cylinders inside of boxes, you're not quite following the procedure correctly, in that you're forgetting about the minor axis. The method goes as follows: You construct a box, then find the midpoint of two opposing faces (by drawing the diagonals of those faces and finding where those diagonals intersect). Then you draw a line between those two midpoints, this line becomes your minor axis. Then you draw your ellipses aligned to that minor axis, and use the box as more of a suggestion, since the minor axis and the box will disagree with each other slightly. Lean more towards following the minor axis than the box, but use the box to determine general size/proportion.
Aside from that, nice work. Consider this challenge complete.
ShootyMcExplosion
2016-09-15 18:19
Hi again Uncomfortable! Here is my Lesson 2. Really felt myself improving while doing this, and at least it got me back to proper drawing after a month or two of beating around the bush. Have a nice day!
Uncomfortable
2016-09-15 19:40
Pretty nice work! I'm glad to see the careful attention paid to the minor axis. Even in the few where you didn't draw them, I can see that you were trying to visualize them in your mind's eye. This is of course tricky business, and they didn't come out as solidly as those with explicitly drawn minor axes, but they're moving in the right direction.
There is just one thing I really want to stress - the importance of drawing through your ellipses. As I've mentioned in my lessons, I fully expect you to draw through each and every ellipse you draw for my lessons. Yours are looking decent as is, but there is some minor unnevenness in places, and some stiffness in others. When it comes to constructing cylinders, the shape of the ellipses you use is extremely important in conveying the illusion of solidity, so it's necessary to do everything you can to nail a confident, smooth ellipse. Drawing around the shape an additional time before lifting your pen will really help reinforce that muscle memory and build confidence in your muscles' ability to excel in this area.
Anyway, other than that, you've done very well. Consider this challenge complete.
1eowo1f
2016-09-21 12:07
Hi Uncomfortable!
Finally got the cylinder challange done:
http://imgur.com/gallery/Srhhq
Still not too happy with them by the end, but I feel they've improved from the beginning.
I find that constructing them inside a box makes a lot more sense to me in terms of geometry, but doing them with just a centreline seems to yield better results. I would like to be able to draw them well using the box method, but I suppose it's a case of practice.
Uncomfortable
2016-09-21 19:14
I'm really glad you pushed beyond the initial 250. I think up to around that point, you were a little sloppy with how you drew your ellipses, and you perhaps weren't putting as much time and care into crafting the various components of your cylinders as you could have. This improved considerably as you got into the 300's, and by the end you seemed to definitely have a much better sense of how to approach these forms. Things take a bit of a dip right around the end though, where you're probably getting pretty exhausted. Ultimately it is very important that you focus on working when you're fresh of mind, so things don't get too sloppy, but I do understand the desire to get through tedious exercises like this.
Overall, you've done a good job. Just continue to work on your patience, taking the time to apply the ghosting method as much as is necessary before executing each mark, and so on. Keep up the good work, and consider this challenge complete.
WinglessViva
2016-09-26 18:59
Hi Uncomfortable! After lesson 6 you advised me to do this challenge, so I did: 250 cylinders. I was kind of reluctant to start, but I did it anyway and I'm happy I did. I realised that I didn't really know how to draw a cylinder before and this definitely helped. I hope I passed :)
Uncomfortable
2016-09-27 20:50
Looking pretty good! I am a little bit disgruntled about you not drawing through your ellipses - they do look pretty good as is, though I really do want you to be drawing through them at least once more before lifting your pen. The other thing I wanted to mention is that your minor axis lines should penetrate all the way through both ellipses, as this makes it considerably easier to actually align your ellipse correctly. Your alignment is fine right now from what I can see, but it's a matter of taking all the steps necessary to have the best possible results.
Keep up the good work, and consider this lesson complete. I'm planning on updating lesson 7 this Saturday, so you may want to hold off on starting on it until after I've added an intro video and done a few more demos.
WinglessViva
2016-09-28 05:16
I'm sorry about the not drawing through.. I started on my first pages and then stopped doing it but I wasn't aware. Maybe because I started drawing smaller. I'll make sure to not forget in my future homework. Thanks for letting me know about lesson 7! I'll wait for the updated version. Thanks!
[deleted]
2016-09-29 16:56
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-09-29 21:15
I think your cylinders are looking pretty good. There's a little bit of wavering with your ghosted lines here and there, but this will go away with time and practice. Overall though, you're doing great. The main thing to be concerned with here is the alignment of your ellipses, and this appears to be progressing nicely. You were already doing a pretty decent job of it to start with, and at this point improvement in this area will be more subtle than stark, but there definitely is growth. One thing I'm pleased to see is that though you started on the first page placing your ellipses to be centred on the ends of each minor axis line, you corrected your mistake by the second page and started placing the entirety of each ellipse on the minor axis, so that it penetrated all the way through. This is definitely much better, and results in better alignment.
Keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
dynamic_dront
2016-09-29 21:49
Here's my cylinders
https://goo.gl/photos/RrFgEjUPfJQpPYpW7
Going through them i notice a lot of them don't have the minor axis going all the way through, i will keep that in mind going forward. Most of them are also off center and generally wonky to some degree but i think i just need more mileage and get my muscle memory trained.
Uncomfortable
2016-09-30 20:28
Nice work! It looks like you're making some pretty solid progress! I especially liked the experimentation with the plane intersections. For the couple where you tried to fit the cylinders into boxes, or ellipses into planes, you should definitely check out the video I posted last weekend (if you haven't already): https://youtu.be/yFjrSddZiv4
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
LiliPT
2016-10-01 22:18
Hello there! This was quite the challenge, no wonder why I only did it twice... actually the first time I tried the challenge I didn't even draw a minor axis! So it doesn't count.
http://imgur.com/a/NqwnA
Thank you for the things you do.
Uncomfortable
2016-10-02 06:10
Wow, that rotated-cylinders thing on the last page is pretty mesmerizing. Overall, great work. The solidity of your cylinders really improves over the set.
One thing that definitely comes to mind is a video that I posted last week, on drawing ellipses such that they represent perfect circles in 3D space. I believe it may help round out your understanding of how ellipses can be used: https://youtu.be/yFjrSddZiv4
Anyway, keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
ReDraw-mind
2016-10-02 20:48
And here is the 250 cylinders .. I hope i did it a bit fine although i know it can be better but this was done before you added the new demos .. i think after seeing the demo i can draw it even better . the only thing i feel i find a bit confusing is how i put the vanishing point & draw the minor axis directing to it .. should it be near or far from the drawn cylinder which is better especially when drawing complex objects that consists a cylinder like the one in Camera
Uncomfortable
2016-10-02 21:18
Pretty good work. The only thing I want to recommend (aside from watching that new video on ellipses in 3D space, which you clearly already have) is that you should make sure that your ellipses sit on the entire minor axis - the line should penetrate all the way through the ellipse, not just stop halfway. It makes it a little easier to gauge whether or not you've aligned your ellipse correctly in this manner.
As for your concern, for the most part I do what I can to avoid actually having vanishing points in the scene, largely because in most cases they're going to be really far off to the side, way off the page. For this reason, I tend to rely on roughly defining the general area my VP is going to be by drawing a few lines that go off towards it.
If you draw any two non-parallel lines, they'll intersect somewhere. In this way, you can use two simple lines to define where a vanishing point is going to be without actually drawing it on the page. From there, you just have to make sure that all of your other lines adhere to this same rule.
Additionally, including a horizon line can be very helpful, since we know that both of our horizontal vanishing points will sit upon this line.
Now, beyond that, defining a box is also very helpful in this regard, as it automatically defines all of our vanishing points for us (so long as the box is constructed in a way that is relatively correct, with all of the parallel lines running off towards the same point). That's why I'm very big on the importance of boxes - they define the perspective system rather completely, and enclose a space in which it is much easier to estimate what angles should be used for other lines. So, if you're trying to draw a camera with a big cylindrical lens coming off the side, you'd draw a box for the body, and then another box coming off it to contain the lens cylinder.
Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete. Keep up the good work.
ReDraw-mind
2016-10-03 09:29
Thank you so much for your generous Reply ... I am optimistic about the coming lessons & i started now to see the whole picture of the drawing process & i feel it's really all about practicing more to be confident a bout what i can draw ... thanks to you i knew a bout different resources to even further my knowledge along with your invaluable guidance .
gmarcc
2016-10-08 14:34
Hey! here is my submission.
I don't think i've dramatically improved over the set. I'm still trying to find a good balance between fluidity and accuracy while drawing my ellipses. Sometimes, they also ended up not aligned at all with my minor axis so i ignored it and tried to gauge where the bottom ellipse should be. It ended up with a lot of minor axis living a life of their own, wandering about in my cylinders :D
Uncomfortable
2016-10-08 21:21
The thing about visible improvement is that you tend to see more of it if you're actually really bad at what you're doing. You're beyond that point - your cylinders started off pretty strong to begin with, and you seemed to grasp the concepts of what it takes to construct them. From here on in, at least in this area, your improvements will be more subtle.
On the topic of balancing fluidity and accuracy, I'd recommend leaning towards fluidity. I do see some of your ellipses still coming out a little bit stiffly, and I believe that given time and practice, it's easier to fix inaccuracy than it is to do away with an unconfident stroke. Of course, that's within reason - just try to loosen up a smidge and push on forwards and see how it goes.
There's only one other thing I'd like to point out - make sure that you're placing your ellipses such that the minor axis passes through them completely. Placing them with their centre sitting on the end point of your minor axis sure looks nice, but it's going to make it more difficult to really nail that alignment.
Anyway, like I said - you're doing great, so it's just a matter of mileage at this point. Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
princebill
2016-10-10 22:09
http://imgur.com/a/bbxMG
Submission 3 - 250 cylinders
I spent a day trying to loosen my ellipses, but i just lost my grasp on boxes! So that didnt go well for trying to construct in the box- I practiced boxes for a bit and got them back (working on them all over again) and then did some cylinders. As far as using the minor and major axis construction, I felt better about it but getting the degree just how I wanted is very tricky
Uncomfortable
2016-10-11 22:58
Your start is definitely... bumpy. I was a little worried through those first couple of pages, but by the fifth or sixth page, you started to hit your stride and the forms really started to come together, and your lines gained some much needed confidence. For the most part these cylinders feel quite solid. One thing in terms of degree to keep in mind is that more often than not, you're not going to have too great a shift from between the degree of the two ellipses. This usually would relate more to some pretty dramatic perspective distortion, so it's not a common thing you'll see in a drawing, and that's why it looks a little stranger (even if you can't quite put your finger on it at the time).
On that note though, you should definitely check out this video I posted a few weeks ago if you haven't already. It relates to the idea of what the degree should be in a particular situation, especially if you're drawing those ellipses in boxes. Also, keep in mind that drawing smaller is going to make things harder on you, since you leave yourself with much less room to think through these spatial problems. In the future, try to loosen up by drawing a little larger, rather than getting stuck in those stiff little spaces where all your lines come out feeling ten times thicker because of how fat your pen is relative to the overall size of your drawing.
princebill
2016-10-12 01:25
http://imgur.com/a/kRikE
So in the example in the video the examples are in 2 pt perspective, In 3 point, how the boxes are drawn, aligning the contact points of the circle should be done along the relevant 3rd VP, right?
EG in the short second set the red hashes are what i used to correct which i realized were horribly inaccurate on the first batch.
Uncomfortable
2016-10-12 01:27
Yep, that is correct. By being 'vertically aligned', I mean that they should line up to the third (vertical) VP. In the case of 2 point perspective, that'd just be straight up and down, but it would shift in 3 point.
sadakko
2016-10-20 14:39
http://imgur.com/a/1ra9b
wow that was hard. Good opportunity to improve my boxes though. I found when I came back to mark the mistakes the perspective mistakes were sticking out like a sour thumb :D
Thanks in advance :)
Uncomfortable
2016-10-20 19:43
Congrats on completing the challenge. Here are a few things that will help you with this in the future:
Your ellipses are looking pretty uneven - it's a good idea to draw through your ellipses, and to draw them with a confident pace instead of doing so with a slow, belaboured stroke. As I explained in lesson 1, letting your brain course-correct while you draw will result in wobbly lines and uneven shapes. In my examples on the cylinder challenge page, I used a tool to draw those ellipses in order to better demonstrate the alignment accurately. When freehanding these ellipses - or any ellipses you draw for my lessons, you must draw through them.
This video was included at the top of the page, you should definitely check it out. It'll explain why some of your cylinders appear to be squashed.
Keep working on your application of the ghosting method in order to smooth out and straighten your lines
Draw your ellipses so that they're sitting on the minor axis line completely (as opposed to being centered around the endpoint). This way the line penetrates through the whole thing, making it easier to tell if your alignment is off.
Drawing small is definitely going to restrict the amount of space you have to think through spatial problems - consider increasing the size of your smaller drawings, maybe by 1.5x-2x.
sadakko
2016-10-21 08:19
Awesome - many thanks for the feedback! Could I ask what do you mean by "Draw your ellipses so that they're sitting on the minor axis line completely (as opposed to being centered around the endpoint). This way the line penetrates through the whole thing, making it easier to tell if your alignment is off."? Cheers!
Uncomfortable
2016-10-21 21:01
See how the minor axis goes all the way through the ellipse? In yours, you had the minor axis line stopping in the middle of the ellipse, rather going all the way through. If you remember from the lessons thus far, the minor axis cuts an ellipse into two equal, symmetrical halves down its narrower dimension. If this is not the case, then the ellipse is misaligned. It's harder to tell if you've made a mistake with its alignment when your minor axis doesn't cut all the way through.
[deleted]
2016-10-23 03:42
Is 250 Cylinder Challenge. Or, rather, 280 Cylinder Challenge since I totally counted from 168 twice.
Uncomfortable
2016-10-23 22:38
Looking good! Your confidence with the material and the solidity with which you capture each form definitely improved over the set. The quality of your ellipses is also improving, resulting in smoother, more consistent shapes. Keep up the great work, and consider this challenge complete.
[deleted]
2016-10-23 22:59
Thanks for the reply. I think I understood the basic idea on how to draw a cylinder through the first couple pages but continuously drew bad lines due to either 1-2mm accuracy errors or inaccurate overlays when trying to add darkness. I know I can solve both by using a pencil with multiple attempts.
OlcheMaith
2016-11-02 23:35
Here it is! Thanks!
https://imgur.com/gallery/JrSdb
Uncomfortable
2016-11-03 21:13
Nice work! Your cylinders are coming along great. As you pushed through these, I'm sure you started to realize that sometimes some ellipses seemed to come out a little too skinny - I actually explain how to figure out which degree is appropriate in a specific situation in this video. Be sure to watch it, as it comes in handy when you start to get into more technical and specific applications of cylinders.
Anyway, keep up the solid work and consider this challenge complete.
OlcheMaith
2016-11-08 14:48
Thank you! A short follow-up question - do you mean that some ellipses that are farther from the viewer are too skinny (while they should have a larger degree than those closer to the viewer)?
Uncomfortable
2016-11-08 15:21
It's actually the end that's closer - so those are supposed to be skinnier than the far end, but it's easy for them to get too skinny.
TheShadowsMaster
2016-11-09 13:13
Hey Uncomfortable, Here is my 250 cylinders! This REALLY helped with my geometric form intersections! Thanks!
Uncomfortable
2016-11-09 21:49
Looking pretty good! You've definitely shown some significant improvement over the set. The only suggestion I have is similar to what I mentioned for your 250 box challenge - don't take the training wheels off too early. Start with your minor axis every time, draw it with the ghosting method to ensure that it's straight, and do everything you can to align your ellipses on that axis. This last point is definitely something you're clearly struggling with, and needs a fair bit of work.
Anyway, keep it up and consider this challenge complete.
TheShadowsMaster
2016-11-10 15:22
I definitely struggle with aligning the ellipse to the minor axis. I'm still working on that. Thanks for the feedback!
[deleted]
2016-11-12 16:47
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-11-12 23:08
Definitely a good choice. Your work here is quite well done. As you move forwards, I do want to recommend that you play a bit with constructing cylinders inside of boxes, as you'll find that this is necessary in order to line up a cylinder to other forms. Additionally, at the beginning of lesson 7 there's two videos (aside from the intro video) that go over some techniques that relate to drawing ellipses inside of planes. Be sure to watch those before jumping into the homework. They'll help explain while some of your cylinders here feel like they're a little bit narrower than they should be (which is totally normal when approaching cylinders in this way).
Anyway, aside from that keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
Mr_MiH
2016-11-22 22:47
https://imgur.com/a/QU1X3
Oh God, they are done! DONE!
Few of my notes about these wannabe-cylinders:
I do realize that on more than just one occasion I did overdo with how many times I drew over the ellipse, but those things are so damn hard t get right just the few first times...
late into the challenge I did realize I wasn't marking the minor axis when constructing the cylinders within a box, but for most of the time it still seemed to work
my red markings are rather sloppy this time, as in many cases I didn't even know what the hell was wrong with the drawing (the box? Perspective? Ellipses?)
It has been a very exhausting challenge, but putting down that number 250 down on the page made it so satisfying :)
Once again, thank you Uncomfortable for your hard work and guidance!
Uncomfortable
2016-11-23 19:38
Great work! And I'm glad to see that you did a lot of them inside of boxes themselves. It's still important to always include your minor axis (just makes for a very good habit that'll pay off in the long run) but technically speaking, so long as your ellipses are lined up in the planes on either side of the box correctly (meaning that the contact points are aligned correctly, which I explain here), it technically should look correct.
Anyway, your constructions are solid, and you've covered a great deal of everything that I wanted to see. Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
perlatus
2016-11-23 10:25
http://blog.vczf.io/post/drawabox-submission_250-cylinder-challenge/
I was aiming for two weeks, but that deadline turned out to be way more cylinders/day than I could manage. Close enough, though.
Uncomfortable
2016-11-23 19:39
I'm glad that you paced yourself. As a result, I can see some considerable improvement over the set, especially when it comes to achieving correct alignment with your minor axes. I'm also glad to see that you did a whole lot of cylinders inside of boxes, as this will be a particularly useful thing to practice. Keep up the great work and consider this challenge complete.
[deleted]
2016-12-13 21:24
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-12-13 21:55
Despite your struggles, it looks to me like you've done a pretty solid job with these cylinders, so good work there. You are getting a little lax with drawing through your ellipses though, resulting in ellipses that are a little bit stiff at times. That said, it doesn't look like your pledges on patreon have gone through since April, so you're technically no longer eligible for critiques. I'll still mark this challenge as complete, but that's definitely something to be aware of moving forwards.
[deleted]
2016-12-14 05:45
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-12-14 05:57
Let me know if/when you get that sorted. Also, I've heard stories that fixing payment problems would result in you getting charged for all the missed months (i donno if this is true or not), so to be safe, you should cancel and repledge. Wouldn't want you to be hit by a $35 charge.
[deleted]
2016-12-16 22:42
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-12-17 21:06
You're progressing just fine - lining up your ellipses correctly takes a great deal of practice, and this is a big step towards being able to do it more consistently. Your cylinders were are improving a fair bit, and you seem to clearly grasp the concepts and have identified the areas where you've made mistakes.
The only thing I want to point out is that you have a tendency of doubling up the straight lines along the side of the cylinders - I'm not sure if this is an attempt to add line weight or if out of that frustration, you're falling back into a habit of immediately reinforcing your marks as a reflex. Make sure each mark you put down is preplanned and considered.
Anyway, keep up the good work and congratulations on completing this challenge.
dataguard
2016-12-18 07:16
Again, I'm not too happy with the quality of the outcome, but I'll leave the critique to you. Constructing the ellipse inside a plane is still incredibly difficult. I didn't attempt that too many times as I felt it held me back from focusing on correctly practising the proper stroke for the ellipse itself.
http://imgur.com/a/9jy5k
Uncomfortable
2016-12-18 20:08
Pretty good work. Your ellipses are definitely better here than they are in the plants exercise (as you seem to be drawing through them more consistently), though there's still a bit of stiffness that you'll have to work through. Your general cylinder constructions are solid. You do have time to work on that ellipse inside of a plane thing, as it doesn't become terribly important until lesson 6, but here's another video on the topic that may help.
Anyway, keep up the good work and consider this challenge complete.
dencontrol
2016-12-20 17:56
here's my submission for the challenge! Did this on the side with the lesson 6 as warmup before going through the lesson, so quality might vary?
(Really shaky pictures, sorry.)
Uncomfortable
2016-12-20 22:30
Looking good. There's definitely some improvement over the set, but I think by the last page you get kind of sloppy - take more care when drawing your minor axis, be sure to apply the ghosting method and keep everything straight and solid. Other than that, consider this challenge complete!
okshim
2016-12-27 21:43
Here are my cylinders: http://imgur.com/a/gJEsx
Some of them I tried drawing without rotating the paper.
Thanks for the work you put into Draw a Box :)
Uncomfortable
2016-12-28 18:09
Pretty good work, I'm particularly pleased with the alignment of your ellipses to your minor axes. Just a few thoughts:
Try to decrease the difference in degree between the two ends of the cylinder. The far end should certainly have a larger degree, but think about what the degree represents, in terms of how that ellipse (and the circle it represents) is oriented towards the viewer. When the different is so large, it implies a lot of perspective distortion coming from the cylinder being very large in scale. This is similar to what I mentioned in your 250 box challenge critique.
Tighten up your ellipses - you're going around them too many times, I'd say start limiting yourself to two rounds.
You should also practice constructing those cylinders inside of boxes.
I'll go ahead and mark this challenge as complete.
Fish_Face_Faeces
2017-01-04 16:50
Cylinders. A bunch of old stuff that I went through with a red pen, along with a page of new cylinders at the end of the album.
Alignment of the ellipses remain an issue, and I tend to overshoot with the minor axis, among other things^TM.
Uncomfortable
2017-01-06 00:42
Again, the new work's leagues better than your previous stuff, so that's definitely a very good sign. Your line weights seem to be much more controlled, and while your ellipses could still use some work in terms of precision, they're smooth and evenly shaped. Many of your previous ones tend to be much more stiff.
Anyway, I'll mark this challenge complete as well! Congratulations on completing all three.
mayadiamond
2017-01-10 10:49
My cilinders
I hope its okay.. Im not sure i did the ones in boxes right..