Uncomfortable's Advice from /r/ArtFundamentals

Added some notes on how to approach rotation in perspective - beware, I have no idea if this is technically correct, it's just what makes sense to me, and that's the best I can offer

http://drawabox.com/lesson/1/selfcritique#boxes-rotationvps

2016-03-26 23:55

Uncomfortable

TheNoLifeKing

2016-03-31 14:56

Although I've been doing your first lessons right along I really have hit a bit of a roadblock when it comes to perspective. I took a slight break to do a bit more research into it because I wanted to fully grasp it before drawing because I wanted to make sure I'm not just copying what you're doing for the sake of it.

Something that really hung me up is your line "Even a single object - given that it is more interesting than a box - can have more than three." Most objects are more interesting then a box, but I am hard pressed to find examples of a drawing that has more then 3 vanishing points. What are some examples of this?

Uncomfortable

2016-03-31 15:52

Here's a dumb sketch to illustrate the point: https://i.imgur.com/nY6q15q.jpg

Basically, whenever you have any sort of pivot, hinge, or other element that causes two parts of the same object to sit at different orientations from each other, you're adding vanishing points. As I mentioned in the lesson, each vanishing point governs a set of parallel lines. The vast majority of objects are made up of far more than just three sets of parallel lines, and therefore will have more than three vanishing points.

Remember that in this count, you have to include all of your vanishing points. While you might draw a simple box in 1 point perspective, it's still made up of three sets of parallel lines, and therefore still has 3 vanishing "points" though in that situation, two of them exist at infinity and cannot be represented on the page (as I discuss in the notes on rotation).

In the example sketch I linked above, you see four vanishing points, but there also exists one other that governs the vertical lines, all of which are parallel.

Beyond just pivots and rotation, you'll see that there are little flaps that come out on the front and back, and hang at a 45 degree angle from the horizontals around them. Those too are governed by entirely separate vanishing points that were not drawn in. If I had drawn in those VPs, they would be sitting above the horizon.

TheNoLifeKing

2016-03-31 16:51

I'm completely new to drawing and this has helped me understand a lot.

I was also confused about the whole 1, 2 and 3 point perspective thing because in reality wouldn't every object in perspective have 3 vanishing points, making everything in 3 point perspective somehow? Them existing, but just at infinity makes more sense to me.

Thanks!

TheNoLifeKing

2016-04-03 17:04

I've go another question actually. In your lesson you say an object in two point perspective starts with an arbitrary line.

What happen to an object in two point perspective when you draw the arbitrary line outside of one of the vanishing points (No longer confining it to within the bounds of the two vanishing points you've drawn), or on top of one of the vanishing point?

For example:

http://i.imgur.com/AweAC8B.jpg

How you would you connect this to both of the vanishing points if the lines would be overlapping?

Uncomfortable

2016-04-03 17:49

Technically speaking it still works, but the box would come out heavily distorted. If you think of the line between the two vanishing points as being the diameter of a circle, anything within that circle will have fairly little distortion applied to it. As soon as you start going out of that circle however, things get warped and weird. See?

TheNoLifeKing

2016-04-03 19:20

Thanks, I've been having a bit of trouble warping my mind around perspective but you've been very helpful.

[deleted]

2016-04-05 00:19

super-secret-stealth-assassin-drops-this-here

http://sonjebasa.blogspot.de/2012/02/perspective-rotate-cube-in-place.html

super-secret-stealth-assassin-has-disappeared

Uncomfortable

2016-04-05 02:13

Oh wow, that's dense. I'm going to have to take some time to really read over that in detail, but thanks for sharing!

[deleted]

2016-04-10 09:50

im still so sad that very technical things like this dont seem to be talked about alot... like, be your own 3D program on paper even it makes your head hurt alot ( and it does 0^ )... well... =[

btw. it kind of works on a vertical horizon line too... gross headpain incorporating both...

btw2. i love you scott robertson dont forget that

and lastly, thanks for draw a box ^_^

Uncomfortable

2016-04-10 16:31

That's definitely at the core of drawabox - there's plenty of resources out there about all of the technical parts of perspective (like Scott Robertson's books) but not a whole lot on how to make the transition between knowing the important rules, and being able to apply them without stalling creatively. A lot of people tend to experience a creative block when they're bogged down by plotting and measuring every single line. With the approach drawabox employs, you're able to work in a more fluid manner that is more conducive to getting your ideas out of your head and onto the page. If necessary, you can always go back over a drawing and lay out the correct perspective once all of the creative work is done.

[deleted]

2016-04-17 07:47

The new notes really helped me with the rotated boxes exercise (thank you so much fo adding them!), but I'm still having some difficulties.

The first problem is that the boxes are not just rotating in the diagram, but also getting further away. How do I know how much smaller to make the boxes for how dar away they are? I've just been guessing, but I feel like I'm getting it all wrong.

The second roadblock I have is making aure my box is a cube. I don't know how long I am supposed to make the sides of the rotated boxes to accurately portray a cube. Again, I've just been guessing and I'm sure I'm doing it all wrong.

Any extra guidance if you have the time would really appreciated! Thank you so much for everything you've done!

Uncomfortable

2016-04-17 17:04

The approach we're using - that is, estimating things approximately, instead of plotting out everything and applying all of the rules of perspective exactly, certainly does have its shortcomings. For instance, with our approach there's no exact way to draw a perfect cube. Distances in our scenes are interpreted in relation to one another - you can technically draw any box (within reason) and claim it to be a perfect cube, after which point every other form you draw must conform to that.

Knowing how much smaller to make your boxes based on how far they are is, again, a matter of considering how the boxes relate to one another. If you look at the drawing on the right of this image (which I did as a critique for someone else a while back), you can see how I've pointed out how each box's size relates to one another. It's all about how far away they are from the viewer, and which ones are closer or further. Those in the corners are going to be the furthest away, (think about the Pythagorean Theorem - c^2 = a^2 + b^2, where c is the distance of a corner box - let's say top-right for example's sake - from the viewer, while a is the distance to the top-center box and b is the distance to the left-middle box).

You make a couple arbitrary assertions of your own (my smallest box is going to be this small, my biggest box is going to be this big) and every other size in between falls in.

Now, despite this perhaps overly technical explanation, rather than fussing over all of this, I encourage people not to overthink it. There's a lot going on, and because of that your first several attempts are going to be terrible failures with inconsistent proportions. Through attempting the exercise multiple times (even after the lesson is marked as complete, which is only to say you're going in the right direction, not that you've reached your destination) you'll subconsciously develop a sense of 3D space and how those forms relate to one another, while only keeping a shadow of the concepts I've mentioned above in the back of your mind.

Maztah_P

2016-05-15 20:32

Hey u/uncomfortable, when doing the rough point perspective exercise, should I plot the points where I want each line of the box to start And end? Or should I just envision completely in my minds eye?

Uncomfortable

2016-05-15 20:34

You should definitely mark out where you want your lines to start/end (just like in the ghosting exercise). The only thing you not doing on the paper is drawing lines that go all the way back to the vanishing point - that's what you're visualizing in your mind's eye.

Maztah_P

2016-05-15 20:36

Ah ok, I see. Thanks for the prompt response!