Is it okay to just do it with my wrist?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/comments/xe93l6/is_it_okay_to_just_do_it_with_my_wrist/
2022-09-14 18:16
charl3zthebucket
To preface this, I am NOT that commited to this course. I'm giving it a try in my free time, because I think it might help improve my drawing a little bit. But I am not looking to become a professional artist or planning to follow the course down to the sentence or anything.
That said, would it be okay if I just continued with the course using my wrist. Like, would it majorly effect my learning of the rest of it, or could I still pick up on the concepts about perspective and drawing in a 3D space without drawing from my shoulder?
Uncomfortable
2022-09-14 18:24
Drawabox is indeed a course whose primary goal is developing students' spatial reasoning skills - and everything else we address is included because it in some manner or another contributes towards that goal.
To that point, skipping all of the important points about drawing using your whole arm, rather than just from your wrist, would indeed cause some notable issues. It'd result in linework that is either wobbly or chicken-scratchy, due to the basic mechanics of the way the arm works, and these qualities when used to draw forms would cause them to appear vastly less solid.
So, in sticking to your wrist, you'd end up losing a lot of that illusion of solidity, which itself serves to help rewire the way in which your brain perceives the things you draw, by convincing you that they are indeed three dimensional.
In essence, drawing strictly from your wrist will make it considerably more difficult to create smooth linework. Not being able to create smooth linework will make it considerably more difficult to draw forms that your brain will perceive as being solid and three dimensional, rather than simply as lines on a flat page. And finally, not being able to draw forms that your brain perceives in that manner, will make it a lot harder to develop your brain's spatial reasoning skills.
I certainly wouldn't advise it. That's not to say there aren't students who, due to injury or illness have no other choice but to try and learn from the course while limiting some of the use of their arm, but it certainly makes things vastly more difficult.
Ultimately if you're going through the material on your own, you're free to use the lessons as you see fit - although in making things more difficult for yourself, it would also make things more difficult for those who might attempt to provide you with feedback or critique (either through the community feedback or official critique programs).
This ultimately begs the question - what is the reason that you find yourself inclined not to learn to draw from your shoulder? It's very common for students to find it to be a difficult thing - but it's also something they generally overcome by facing it head-on, rather than avoiding it.
ellasen
2022-09-16 02:01
I remember when I did art classes in school, our teacher specifically taught us to draw from the wrist. My outlines are now really bad. And its also extremely difficult to relearn now (Im trying but it feels like I have 0 control over the pencil and my hand when I try using my whole arm). So I would strongly recommend doing it with your whole arm so that you dont end up with bad outlines like me and with bad habits, which would be a lot harder to fix in the long run.
charl3zthebucket
2022-09-14 18:48
Thank you for such a detailed response!
I suppose it comes down to me as a person. I have never been one who can just "switch my brain off", as they say. I have suffered from anxiety since I was a child, and whilst I am in the process of rewiring my brain and working on my mental illness, there are some parts of me that will always be anxious, no matter what.
So here I am, trying to learn this brand new way of drawing, using my shoulder, ghosting lines, etc. And my lines are wobbly. That's not a suprise. I don't expect myself to be excellent at it immediately. So I took to the internet to find out why my lines are like this, and how I can improve them
It's a bit disconcerting when the response to the question "what do I do if my lines are wobbly" almost always comes back to "you need to relax. Completely focus on the task and make the stroke in one, confident movement"
My brain just doesn't do that. I can't just put all of my focus into one thing. I wish I could, but it's literally the way I am wired.
My question, in more depth, is, is it REALLY worth me spending so much effort, trying to literally train my brain into doing something it finds incredibly hard to do.
It's not like a mindset problem. I'm sure I COULD do it. And I am willing to put all my effort and hard work into the other aspects of the course. But this whole "confident lines" thing honestly just feels like it would take an unbelievable amount of struggling to fix, whilst I could be working on other parts of my artistic talent instead.
Uncomfortable
2022-09-14 18:54
There are certainly limits in terms of how accurately I can speak to any one individual's troubles. I've had thousands of students come through these doors, and have heard of countless struggles to rewire the way in which our brains perceive tackle the challenges we put before them. I can say with confidence that everyone I've seen attempt it has grown and improved as a result (and that they've even found that coming out the other end they were far more open to tackling similarly daunting challenges in the future), but I cannot guarantee that for you. I don't know what you're going through, and I am not a medical health professional, so it would be irresponsible for me to make promises.
All I can say is to reflect upon your situation, and on the fact that this stuff is not easy for anyone. It is painfully hard. Drawing confident lines, and drawing in general. But, you get to dictate what it is you wish to get out of it, and there is a lot of flexibility that comes from pursuing it simply as a hobby. It eliminates a lot of the "requirements", and opens up choices... although that in and of itself can make it that much more difficult, as all of a sudden you're left making a lot of decisions without much knowledge. And those of us who do know about the challenges involved in learning to draw, don't know about the challenges involved in being you.
And perhaps ask yourself one thing - if you were to draw your lines confidently, and allow yourself to make a ton of mistakes (in terms of accuracy) as a result... what is the absolute worst thing that can happen as a result? And then decide whether that worst case scenario is really all that bad, or if it's something you could accept.
charl3zthebucket
2022-09-14 19:07
No, you are right. As wise as you are about people and mindsets, I can't expect you or your course to fix my mental health or something. That's too much responsibility for anyone.
I can't say I agree with you yet, but I can no longer say that I am definitely right either, so thank you for taking the time to challenge my views. I'll keep trying for a bit and see how it goes.
ElectricSquiggaloo
2022-09-15 06:21
Hey, I thought Id weigh in. Ive finished the course, suffer from anxiety, and struggled a lot with letting go and perfectionism. /u/Uncomfortable will back me up here, I was one of his more painful students that did pretty well once I could get out of my own way and trust that what I was doing would bring results eventually.
I found learning to let go really hard and I still struggle a lot with it. Some days you will be all thumbs. Some days youll nail it. For me, its a control thing - if Im trusting myself to do it right, Im not steering the ship anymore which definitely makes me a little anxious. One thing Ive found that helps is lowering my inhibitions a little before I sit down to draw - sometimes thats when Im physically tired from the gym or Ive had a beverage or two - but this really helps with the overthinking because I dont have as much bandwidth for it.
Anyway, I had a lot more in my head when I started typing this comment but its disappeared but you have my empathy, picking up new skills and the process of learning to loosen up is super hard. Ive been trying to do it with my newest hobby and its difficult trying to do it again when I just learned it for drawing but it does get a little easier the second time. Be patient with yourself.
cciciaciao
2022-09-15 07:54
Is this important, yes. Sounds like you don't want to learn it and are asking for our aproval. If you don't want it don't do it but the course takes an entire lesson about it so asking if it's that important it's honestly superficial, ofc it is important
Ok-Huckleberry2565
2022-09-14 18:49
I can draw from my shoulders well on paper but when I sketch on my computer, my digital tablet is small and shoulder gestures are hard to execute. Pls any advice on how I tackle that?
Uncomfortable
2022-09-14 18:59
While it is possible to draw from your shoulder on any tablet - even the small ones - that does not mean that it is easy to do so. While one can, by actively taking control of the actions we take (and thus consciously forcing yourself to use your shoulder at every stroke and not letting yourself fall into the kind of instinctual auto-pilot we inevitably do when we lose focus), it will be quite challenging.
The easier solution is to pick up a medium sized tablet, but that can cost anywhere from a hundred to a few hundred dollars (if we're talking non-display tablets), so not everyone has that option. It'll still take getting used to as well, but it will at least make that challenge considerably easier to get used to.
So, the choice is:
Keep working at it, keep being attentive to the choices and actions you're taking, and don't let yourself go into auto-pilot
Get a bigger tablet. As I mentioned before, my assumption is that you're talking about a non-display tablet. If you are talking about a display tablet, personally if I don't have the budget to get a 16" or larger, I'd sooner work with a medium sized non-display tablet and a larger normal display, as I've always found that translates better (although all non-display tablets do have their own learning curve to get used to since it involves drawing on a surface and seeing the canvas update on a different display).
Ok-Huckleberry2565
2022-09-14 19:13
Yeah. Its a non display Wacom Intuos Small. It was on a discount and seemed like a a good deal. The obvious choice like you said would probably be to be attentive not to draw from my wrists.
I don't want get a bigger tablet just yet as I am fairly new to drawing and am not quite confident enough to invest in it yet.
Drawabox is difficult though I have to say but I can picture the end goal well enough to keep on. Thank you.
Uncomfortable
2022-09-14 20:10
If you do end up deciding to go for a bigger tablet, going for a XP-PEN Deco Pro or something like that instead of a Wacom will definitely save you a good bit without any noticeable decrease in performance. I've always bought Wacom stuff myself (although I did pick up Huion and XP-Pen alternatives for a comparison video I'm gonna make... eventually...) and while once upon a time there was a big difference between what you'd get from the different brands, these days it's minimal, while the price difference is considerable.
My first though was a second hand Wacom Graphire2 4" x 5", and I have no idea how I managed with that awful little thing.
Edit: Oh, as a side note - all your comments automatically go to the spam filter, so I checked your profile and it looks to be showing symptoms of being shadow-banned. If you don't think that's a result of something you've done to make the reddit admins angry, you might want to reach out to them to have it fixed.