People who didn't have fun drawing bad stuff for the 50% rule, did you start to find drawing fun after you got good?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/comments/sttdug/people_who_didnt_have_fun_drawing_bad_stuff_for/
2022-02-16 11:10
ArchaicArchivist
I feel like I want to learn to draw because there are some art works I want to create, but I don't feel any particular amount of dopamine when drawing. The "I don't have fun drawing things for the 50% rule because I'm not good yet and I don't find drawing bad things fun" is a sentiment I've read several times in this subreddit, and most answers are along the lines of "you don't need motivation, you need discipline; keep drawing!"
But I wonder if the issue of not having fun will ever actually resolve itself if I were to push through with sheer disciple and end up becoming a decent artist, or if the issue actually lies deeper; maybe "I'm not having fun because I'm not good yet" is merely an excuse I tell myself: if I were to truly find drawing fun, I would already be having fun while drawing dumb stuff; if I can't have fun drawing dumb stuff, I still won't be having fun even if I could draw good stuff.
Like, when you imagine an artist, you imagine somebody who started drawing because they found it fun, not because they wanted to get good. Maybe I am merely enamoured by the idea of drawing rather than the act of drawing itself?
Maybe the group of people "who didn't have fun drawing dumb stuff but still got good" which the title asks about, doesn't even exist? Maybe all successful artists already had fun while drawing dumb stuff, and those who didn't have fun drawing dumb stuff eventually gave up? Are there actually people out there who only started to have fun while drawing after they got good at it?
AdenorBennani
2022-02-16 13:06
Maybe you just don't enjoy the process of drawing. When doing any activity, if you find yourself focusing too much on the result and not having fun with the process then it probably just isn't for you. You like the idea of drawing instead of the act.
Trying it out wasn't for nothing, you must try out new activities before figuring out what you love best, there is no other way. So go on and explore new stuff, life's too short to do what you don't enjoy.
Din149
2022-02-16 13:36
I had these thoughts too until I joined an atelier and got a teacher to guide me for the first time. I did a lot of coal studies, which weren't that boring because they were great practice and looked better than anything I had ever done.
Now with the skill I've developed I've started to understand how to have fun with personal art. Here's what changed it for me: fun personal art needs to be about something specific that makes me passionate. Maybe it's the same for you. Right now I'm trying to learn to draw in the style of one of my favourite artist, and it's been so amazing to analyze his characters and experiment. I recommend you do the same.
So basically you don't need the skill to have fun, just something you really want to draw and learn about, but still, making art that looks good feels good
rafa-droppa
2022-02-16 13:38
I would recommend starting with easier stuff to draw if you're results driven.
For example, if you want to draw a picture of a restaurant scene, and you felt discouraged trying to draw it, instead start drawing the various components of the scene such as a bottle of wine, the plates of food, the table, etc.
Don't draw these together, just start on a new canvas doing just a bottle of wine. It's much simpler and you'll get a good result faster. Then draw something else from the scene on it's own canvas, and so on.
Eventually, you'll have the practice to draw the original idea much better so then you're just focusing on improving different aspects of your overall idea, such as the people or the lighting or whatever.
That was sorta my approach; I'm saying this as a person who draws digitally but isn't very good, although I don't know of many artists who think they're at the level of competency they want to be at - all the ones I know always think they could do better.
alligator_soup
2022-02-16 16:21
This is so helpful. Ive noticed a lot of people say just practice but dont say what you should be practicing.
rafa-droppa
2022-02-16 17:54
thanks, yeah I fee like any new thing is so daunting you just have to break it down into smaller steps so that it's surmountable.
rainbow_rhythm
2022-02-16 13:55
I've just started enjoying the bad stuff after quite a while of feeling very frustrated and avoidant of it.
I think I've 'learned how to suck' and have a feeling this could be way more valuable than learning how to be good, because I'm much more likely to pick up a pen and start now (and enjoy it too).
ToastNomNomNom
2022-02-16 14:09
I don't currently do any drawing what so ever. I started drawing because I want to make cool web comics and had a specific quality of art I wanted to achieve. When I started drawing I found it very difficult to deal with how poor the quality of my art was, and that discouraged me quite a bit. I would say lowering expectations is important but not too lower your goal just means it might take you a bit longer than you think to reach it.
It' s like you wanting a great body but expecting to be in shape by the end of the week. Having lower expectation and giving more time too develop skills is key. One other thing to note is drawing people especially faces is quite difficult because every day we interact or see faces meaning we visually have a lot of high detail imaging in our mind so when your draw that squiggly crap intending to draw a face it can be outputting. Regarding the fun aspect sometimes I enjoyed when I accomplished something that looked decent it felt good. I do believe there are plenty of people who enjoy drawing for the sake of drawing and those people will likely end up better artist because they are enjoying the whole process not the end result. Its like an adventure enjoy the journey don't just think about the destination.
So maybe taking the time to enjoy art or subject you genuinely interests you is important step in maintaining motivation.
Comparing your own art work with other artist is kind of a crux too there will obviously be gaps in talent or handwork that will take time to improve you can't just pick up a pen and be Jung Gi Kim but I believe you should compare yourself to your past self too see if you think your on the right track.
That said I am not very good/driven so take what I say with a grain of salt.
that_motorcycle_guy
2022-02-16 14:20
The real question might be why do you want to draw in the first place then? Maybe you like the idea of drawing but don't really like the action of drawing in itself? Being honest with you, I don't "enjoy" drawing as much as when I was a kid, but having a goal of doing small comic strips and drawing cars is what keeps me going, you need some personal goals to keep going, got to be honest with yourself.
violethummingbird
2022-02-16 15:06
So there are many approaches to this, and this is a broad subject.
At first I struggled very much with 50% rule and it was not fun for me. But after persevering, pushing through my own fears and inner critic, it is my favourite part now. And I am not good at art yet. Key I think is to push through. Around \~15-20 minutes of the session first content feeling arrives, at least for me. Before that, I just fear my own incompetence or get frustrated with whatever.
BUT I need to add if you push through and you just feel frustration building, nothing else - not even remotely content feeling - I would stop, take a break and reevaluate.
brunchyum123
2022-02-16 16:09
Try reading this article on flow state and particularly the chart - theres a key zone of skill vs challenge, and its likely youre trying too many challenging things that are causing anxiety or lack of fun because the results arent good.
https://alifeofproductivity.com/how-to-experience-flow-magical-chart/
Per another commenter, you want to challenge yourself juuust outside of your skill zone to remain in flow and enjoying the process, not so far outside your current skills that it tips the scale into anxiety / lack of fun. So finding ways to practice art at a smaller scale, pieces of a whole, or working on the technical side of your skills might be helpful.
Im just getting into acrylic painting from other mediums, and Ive been focusing on playing with different brush strokes, paint to medium ratios, etc to better understand how the medium handles. Its a lot of fun so far. Next Im going to start practicing painting one object. Etc. If I started out trying to make a complete perfect masterpiece that would definitely be far outside my skill zone and very much NOT fun or a flow state.
kaidomac
2022-02-16 16:42
Maybe I am merely enamoured by the idea of drawing rather than the act of drawing itself?
I have ADHD & I struggle with this ALL the time! I love the idea of doing things, but quite often, the act of doing the discrete tasks is as irritating as nails on a chalkboard:
I constantly struggle with the motivation required to stick with stuff day after day, especially once that initial interest wears off & I'm stuck with the actual work of learning new things & doing new things. Preface: this is a big, long discussion for me, lol. For starters, my core definition of success is as follows:
- Doing things, even when I don't feel like it
This is the magic sauce for:
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Learning new stuff
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Getting good at new stuff
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Doing new stuff
To paraphrase productivity author David Allen:
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We can't actually "do" a project at all
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We can only do individual action steps related to the project
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When enough of those discrete steps are done, we mark our project off as "complete"
So really, our success in life boils down to the concept of "single-tasking": if we're willing to consistently engage in doing one job at a time, and then to be consistent at it (SUPER HARD IN PRACTICE!), magical things can happen! Which gets into the question of motivation:
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Work is work. Work is inherently lonely, boring, and frustrating.
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A task is just a task. Some tasks are inherently more fun than others.
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Feelings-wise, what it really boils down to is (1) how much we like the task in question, and (2) how much PEM energy we have that day (physical/emotional/mental), because when we're fried, nothing is very much fun lol
For example, I like to cook, but only when I'm in the mood to do so, which mostly means when I have some energy available, haha! Cooking is work, but when I want some cookies & the dopamine kicks in, the work becomes a pleasure! Unfortunately, sometimes I want cookies & I'm in a low-energy state, in which cases the task of cooking falls because into its default "it's just work now" state, rather than being fun! So here's the bit of information:
- The ability to push past our feelings & work despite that internal resistance is basically what separates successful people from unsuccessful people.
The urge to quit is so incredibly strong at times, particularly in the creative fields where we really WANT to feel motivated & enjoy doing our creative work! Over the years, I've found some tricks to mitigating that:
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Harnessing the power of compounding interest through novel iteration
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The Inspiration Engine, find our "why", and defining creativity
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The Energy Formula
1 - Harnessing the power of compounding interest through novel iteration:
For starters, it's important to realize the power of compounding interest:
Basically, consistent effort doesn't create linear growth, it creates exponential growth. This is due to how interest compounds interest. Basically, we start out on our learning journey & learn new things & do new things & hone our abilities, which then allows us to create a web of support that grows & grows & grows over time (through daily consistency, because otherwise we run out of rice lol).
The way to access the power of compounding interest is through consistent novel iteration. Novel iteration basically just means doing something new every day:
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Recreating something
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Honing a skill
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Learning something new
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Doing something new
Earlier, I said that my core definition of success was doing things, even when I don't feel like it, but really it should be:
- Doing things consistently day after day, even when I don't feel like it
This requires moving from an emotion-based approach to a commitment-based approach:
Basically:
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We know that compounding interest is super-powerful for allowing us to get mega-good at things over time, and that it's achieved through "small bites" of work day after day
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However, in the heat of the moment, when we're "riding the bull", it can be SUPER hard to stick with those simple (not easy!) tasks
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By using our knowledge of how to get good at things, we can instead switch to a commitment-based approach, which is simply where we're (1) willing to do the work even when we don't feel like it, and (2) do that day after day after day
This ability to be persistent in the face of inner resistance & aversion to our daily assignments is called "grit":
She teaches that "effort counts twice", which is the formula for why sticking with stuff helps us get good at stuff (at least, when we persistently work on the right stuff!). First, some definitions:
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Talent = the ability to do something
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Skill = how good we are at it
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Achievement = results or performances (products & services, ex. a finished artwork, a music recital, etc.)
So the formula for "effort counts twice" is:
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Ability x Effort = Skill
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Skill x Effort = Achievement
So the real magic lies in that daily discrete action to both make progress in our studies to 'row our talents (abilities) & on our projects (to finish them!).
part 1/2
kaidomac
2022-02-16 16:42
part 2/2
Some days it's easy, some days it's not! Which is exactly what you've run into:
I don't feel any particular amount of dopamine when drawing
So for starters, it really just boils down to:
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Realizing that true progression happens when we stick with doing things despite resistance, aka "engaging in consistent, daily novel iteration to harness the power of compounding interest", in order to let the whole "effort counts twice" formula get put to work!
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Remembering that work is work, and it's really more dependent on (1) how good we're feeling that day, and (2) if we have any personal dopamine problems. For me, I'm often tired after a long day at work, and then my ADHD kicks in & doesn't want to supply the dopamine to make practicing & learning enjoyable, so then I'm stuck there feeling like Atlas holding up the weight of the world, just to get a simple task done. The emotional dysregulation is REAL haha!
Every single famous artist had to go through this process, unfortunately! Nobody feels awesome 24/7/365/forever, which mean that for famous artists to get good at what they do & produce multiple works of art, they had to push through. To quote Michelangelo:
- "If people knew how hard I worked to get my mastery, it wouldn't seem so wonderful at all."
The ability to master our craft pretty much boils down to:
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Pick something to master
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Make a daily progression plan
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Force yourself to do it every day (to harness the power of compounding interest)
I like to use the X-effect to follow a super-basic daily growth plan for my art projects:
So success pretty much just means working on the right things consistently, even when we don't feel like it & aren't in the mood!
2 - The Inspiration Engine, find our "why", and defining creativity
When starting new projects, sometimes I get stuck on coming up with ideas to get started. I have a little tool called "The Inspiration Engine", which helps me to quickly generate ideas. I don't always go with one of the ideas I sketched out, but this process essentially creates kindling for my creative fires to burn:
I also think it helps to define our personal reasons why we personally do art:
One tool that I use when I'm struggling in the moment is to define my "reasons why", which requires two things:
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Logical reason why
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Emotional reason why
They don't have to be GOOD reasons, they simply have to exist!
When we're not in the mood to plow through our creative work, we tend to get tunnel vision, so our job is to expand that tunnel vision & widen our field of view to help us remember why we're doing what we're doing.
Also, creativity is something that I've thought a lot about over the years & have started to clarify in my own mind as to exactly how it works:
So what we're really doing is using our ability & skill to pull existing levers in order to create new works of art, and to adopt & internalize drawing skills, art styles, etc. aka working! And how fun that is depends more or less on how we feel that day!
3 - The Energy Formula
A big part of how easy it is to immerse myself in work, especially boring work, depends on how good I feel that day. My formula for energy is basically:
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Sleep
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Diet
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Exercise
I spent a good 20 years with insomnia, and BOY does poor sleep kill motivation! Eventually I came to realize just how crucial good sleep is on the ability to be able to enjoy sticking with projects, such as learning how to draw. Turns out I had sleep apnea, among other issues:
Food is also super duper important, as is hydration:
Plus, exercise releases endorphins, which makes us feel good. So getting great sleep, feeding our bodies with "race fuel", and working out daily (doesn't have to be much!) release all kinds of chemicals that help us feel good & happy & motivated!
Remember, all work - no matter how interested we are in the idea of it, such as artwork - boils down to boring, lonely, frustrating tasks...which we can reframe by enabling ourselves to have higher energy! Boring tasks like honing our art skills are always going to be just that - boring - but that's what enables progress, which then enables us to to create works of art!
We can also make it better by adding music, candles, working around other people (art classes, friends, Starbucks, FocusMate.com, etc.), doing it in the morning when we have more energy, reminding ourselves of our logical & emotional reasons why we're doing art, using great tools like the Inspiration Engine & X-Effect to help us get ideas & chip away on our projects, etc.!
But yeah, the bottom line is that learning can be a real slog. But it's like the frustration of learning how to tie your shoes as a kid, because once you master it, now you can tie your shoes & go play! Granted, art projects are still going to be dependent on interest levels, mood, energy, etc. because work is work, but it's also more fun to work on stuff when you know what you're doing & have confidence that you can execute your idea because you've put in the time to gain the skills to back it up!
spunkypeach___
2022-02-16 17:05
Wow, I really like your brain. It explained a lot of the things my brain struggles with in a way I struggle to articulate. THANK YOU!
kaidomac
2022-02-16 18:01
You're welcome! My brain tends to get caught up in the drama of life & always wants to swing for big home runs, rather than itty bitty atomic-sized sniper bites of work, which is where the real magic is!
I get such incredible tunnel vision that I'll talk myself out of doing simple exercises or assignments because the crushing weight of the feeling of "not wanting to do it" weighs so heavily on me lol. It's a stupid problem to have! And yet, mastery of this one single skill is essentially the universal key to success, whether it's having clean laundry all the time, getting good at art, getting a 6-pack, doing meal-prep, studying for school, you name it!
fuckass24
2022-02-16 17:33
One of the few moments where I've saved a comment on reddit. I have ADHD too, and I'm finally getting proper treatment for it. A lot of the things you've written about here I've touched on in therapy and they really apply to any skill/hobby from my experience, but you've articulated it way better than I ever could.
kaidomac
2022-02-16 17:57
It's hard because with ADHD, our brains operate off the Mooch Circuit:
Below the foundation of what we see & experience in life is this truth:
- Everything is a checklist!
We learn & make progress one step at a time. The problem is, sometimes the tasks are super boring & sometimes we're a little bit too tired to care, so it's a major drag. With ADHD, it's a HUGE drag because we don't get any dopamine from rote work!
The ability to consistently execute simple tasks is the bottom line for success. This means finding coping strategies for pushing through the internal barrier of low mental energy in order to get today's tasks done. Not easy in practice!!
[deleted]
2022-02-17 00:36
This is a great comment! I have ADHD as well, and learned this the hard way. Your points about diet and exercise are really valuable! I should get back onto track haha.
LeafPankowski
2022-02-16 18:48
Yeah. Eventually it clicked and I felt myself enjoying it a lot more. Somewhere in Lesson 2 I think.
[deleted]
2022-02-16 23:19
See thats the best part. Ive never gotten good despite any improvements i still feel like trash when i draw lol
ArtfullyFelicity
2022-02-16 23:39
"Fun" was never mentioned really.
I'm also commenting so I can save some of these comments and come back to them :D
FrankyHentai69
2022-02-17 05:09
Not really someone whose completed the drawabox lessons past 1 nor do I consider myself are particularly good artist yet, but theres a level you get to when you faithfully stick to the methods you are taught where they become second nature and drawing becomes more natural and fun as a result. I can't say whether this applies with the drawabox way of learning to draw, I'm just assuming this as that's where I have gotten with the methods that were taught to me in my college after a long period of practice. Have faith in yourself and apply what you've learned in your 50 % drawings, supplement your drawings other learning methods along side it or test out different mediums. Most importantly make sure you are drawing things that interest or inspire you ( I drew mechs after lesson 1 since I was watching alot of gundam and the perspective stuff lent itself naturally to robots and vehicles)
One last thing, I've been terrible at drawing for most of my life, I found it fun sometimes but most of the times when I was learning it was a boring slog and it was almost always easier to play video games or watch movies. I've been to the point where similar to you I found drawing not fun, regardless I pushed through learning basics regardless. Its only recently that I'm filled with a constant motivation to draw and create, and its partially due to the confidence I get from having practiced my fundamentals( I'm no where near good or pro btw I'm just more confident in what I need to do to make a better looking drawing). Drawing is like working out it's not easy but its fulfilling.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Uncomfortable
2022-02-16 14:30
I think it would be irresponsible of me not to point out here that the majority of students coming through these metaphorical doors suffer from the whole "enjoying the idea of drawing more than actually drawing" - it's an incredibly common thing I see from my students all of the time.
And it is very much something many of them learn to overcome, though it is not an easy thing to accomplish. It requires us to first and foremost break the need for everything we produce to turn out well. Getting used to drawing a bunch of garbage helps erode those existing mental connections between the end result and the pleasure we feel from having achieved it.
This is a process we've pushed upon our students more and more over the last many years, and I can say confidently that we can rewire the way in which our brains derive satisfaction and fulfilment. Jumping straight to "It must not be for you", as declarative as that is, really does require some further support as it's a blanket statement that will easily drive those already uncertain of their potential to giving up.