When you want your drawings to actually look good, do you still draw the construction lines like spheres, cylinders etc or do you you just imagine them in your mind and draw without them so the drawing looks cleaner?
I'm assuming you're asking in the context of the Drawabox course (which this subreddit focuses on) - just adding this disclaimer because your wording leaves me uncertain as to whether your question is more general or not (since plenty of people ask questions here without realizing the community's focus).
The way Drawabox employs construction is as an exercise you can do, which involves solving a sort of 3D spatial puzzle. We start with simple forms, and add further simple forms to them, while defining their relationships in 3D space and ultimately working in the direction of the goal defined by our reference. This - the manipulation of 3D forms on the flat surface of the page we're drawing on, and of defining the spatial relationships between them - is what actively rewires our brains to perceive the things we draw as though they're 3D, not just lines and shapes on a flat page or canvas.
We can use construction when solving particularly difficult spatial problems in our own drawings, but the intent is that you'll continue to draw in whatever way you find most comfortable, when working on your own stuff outside of the exercises assigned by the course.
So, to answer your question:
Construction is an exercise and a tool - outside of using it as an exercise, when drawing your own things, it's not the only approach one can employ. There's no one right approach - there are just a bunch of tools that you have in your belt, and you use whatever suits what you're doing at the time.
The spatial reasoning skills the constructional drawing exercise develops is effectively what does allow us to hold that understanding in our minds, rather than needing to always drawing it explicitly. We draw it all explicitly for the purpose of the exercise, but outside of it as those skills develop, you'll find yourself being able to rely less and less upon them for your own pieces.
That said, keeping things "cleaner" isn't necessarily a reason to forego construction altogether. It depends - if your goal is to perform for an audience, then there's something to be said about whipping out paint or a brush pen or whatever and just jumping into whatever you want to draw. That of course would require really well developed spatial reasoning skills, along with a healthy serving of confidence. If however your primary goal is to produce a drawing to the best of your ability, there are undoubtedly going to be other avenues you can take to still use construction, but remove it after the fact. Working digitally obviously makes that easy with the use of layers, but when working traditionally there are options as well - from using a pencil which can be erased to lay down your base structure, to using transfer paper, etc. Since I don't usually work traditionally in my own artwork, I don't know of all the options that are available, but it's not uncommon for artists to develop their work in stages, iterating over the same piece multiple times to nail it as well as they possibly can, making use of all the tools they have at their disposal. Just keep in mind that the goal isn't always to produce something as well as you can - there are many priorities one might put in front of the rest, from meeting a deadline, to impressing an audience with a live performance, and so on.
sometimes I feel like using construction lines, sometimes I dont.
if I want it to look clean and I want to use construction lines then I would make my main medium not be pencil. I might start it with pencil and then go over it in pen, or painting, or chalk pastel, or whatever have you, and then erase the pencil. (ive never used a pencil and chalk pastel on the same piece before but ig you could)
Yeah, by the time I left art school, I could draw anything without an extra mark made. I was drawing or painting for 22 hours a week in class and another 5-10 hours at home.
I am drawing far less now and I have to go back to the beginning; making complex forms by assembling simple forms.
Can't lose if you plan a little bit and lightly lay out the whole composition, developing it all at once instead of one area at a time. This seems to be the most efficient use of my time at this point.
I have a set of tarot cards made from the designs of a very old deck of hand-drawn cards from the 16th century. Some of the figures are really badly done. If only the designer had sketched his skeletons first! But back then, they didn't even know what a skeleton really looked like.
I don't always feel the inspiration. I can't always skip a step or two in the fever of creation.
Sometimes it's about putting in the extra minutes of work to make the picture turn out. (Especially if it's for a client)
Having those fundamental construction methods on hand is great to stay "consistently" good.
To achieve cleaner drawings depends on your entire method. For example; I work in ink. My construction lines are from no.2 pencils and easily covered by ink or erased. But, my forms, shapes, and compositions would look like ass if I didn't use those construction lines in the first place.
you are allowed to make multiple drafts, if you are not feeling confident, make the first draft with simple construction, and then put on the details, and then another draft without any construction. As many drafts as it takes, quality over quantity.
There's no reason to not use them, in an actual drawing they can be removed by drawing on a different layer, coloring over the lines till they're not visible or going over the main lines with ink then erasing the construction lines. It just depends on what medium you use.
I always draw construction lines. I actually like them and a lot of people comment when I'm sketching that they like seeing them in the sketch. I think they add depth to a sketch and other people like seeing how you measure.
I always draw the construction. For me, its the only way to make sure everything is where it should be and the proportions are correct. Thats just part of the drafting phase. Youll clean it up once you get to the later stages and are adding details.
I draw them - they'll disappear in the rendering anyway, once I get that far.
If I wanna do lineart, and I'm not working digital, then I either ink and erase the pencil lines, or ink on a separate sheet of paper that I overlay on the sketch.
If you want your drawings to look good, then you need to draw construction lines beforehand. They can be erased afterward. There is no such thing as imagining them in your mind correctly, they need to be physically drawn.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 04:33
That's untrue since there are many artists who draw them directly (EX: Peter Han who inspired Drawabox).
You just have to understand and practice how lines, shapes and perspective work, so then you can do this just by putting the major shapes and organizing them together, or just doing without any kind of sketch.
Of course, you need to build your visual library and do a lot of hard work before going into this, and you won't imagine them 100% correctly, but by no means construction lines HAVE to be drawn.
Those artists have been drawing construction lines daily for decades so they don't need to use them anymore. For a learning artist that hasn't yet made a professional art career, drawing and understanding construction lines is necessity.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 15:26
Which is exactly what I've said...
Though they've practiced doing things without construction lines alongside those studies, not only after being pros.
Korean and Japanese artists in particular have a tendency to do that.
They usually do croquis and urban sketches drawing contour lines directly ; outside in, instead of inside out.
Again, you're talking about 'learned and practiced' artists. They learned construction at some point.
OP specifically said:
When you want your drawings to actually look good
Until a learning artist understands simple forms in 3d space )through practicing construction or gesture construction( they won't be able to correctly draw 3d forms that 'actually look good'. I'm saying whether an artist currently uses them in day-to-day work or not, they at some point had to draw, learn, and understand construction.
I'm not really sure what you've got a disagreement about, but if you're saying construction isn't needed and some people can innately dream up correct forms without ever studying forms, then that is incorrect.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 16:15
All I'm saying is that you should do both.
You can prioritize construction drawing, study volume and mass, placing figures and objects in perspective.
But also study positive and negative shapes + some direct drawings.
Doodles are good for that matter (specially with a pen) , it's good to relief from stress and it actually helps to make your lines better.
Studying other artists or still life with negative space exercises is also good, you learn proportions and how things situate into space, plus it also helps you with learning simple shapes.
Oh and of course those artists learned construction, like I've said at my first comment.
It's just that they were also already doing direct drawings or drawing with simple shapes (without actually drawing the spheres, cubes, etc) alongside with these studies.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 04:23
I draw the shapes first, if I see some asymmetry or errors here and there, I do construction lines before rendering.
Just to see what I'm talking about, this is a random sketch I did on my phone:
I'm learning this process studying other artists such as Yoh Yoshinari, Krenz Cushart, Kim Jung Gi, among some others which are good at simplifying figures.
Also Ethan Becker's videos about shapes are gold, I recommend checking it out.
Edit :
Sometimes I forgot that this sub is about Drawabox. In the context of DA I think it's mandatory to use construction lines to do the drawings, though shape knowledge is one of the most important things for any artist.
Uncomfortable
2021-12-11 17:07
I'm assuming you're asking in the context of the Drawabox course (which this subreddit focuses on) - just adding this disclaimer because your wording leaves me uncertain as to whether your question is more general or not (since plenty of people ask questions here without realizing the community's focus).
The way Drawabox employs construction is as an exercise you can do, which involves solving a sort of 3D spatial puzzle. We start with simple forms, and add further simple forms to them, while defining their relationships in 3D space and ultimately working in the direction of the goal defined by our reference. This - the manipulation of 3D forms on the flat surface of the page we're drawing on, and of defining the spatial relationships between them - is what actively rewires our brains to perceive the things we draw as though they're 3D, not just lines and shapes on a flat page or canvas.
We can use construction when solving particularly difficult spatial problems in our own drawings, but the intent is that you'll continue to draw in whatever way you find most comfortable, when working on your own stuff outside of the exercises assigned by the course.
So, to answer your question:
Construction is an exercise and a tool - outside of using it as an exercise, when drawing your own things, it's not the only approach one can employ. There's no one right approach - there are just a bunch of tools that you have in your belt, and you use whatever suits what you're doing at the time.
The spatial reasoning skills the constructional drawing exercise develops is effectively what does allow us to hold that understanding in our minds, rather than needing to always drawing it explicitly. We draw it all explicitly for the purpose of the exercise, but outside of it as those skills develop, you'll find yourself being able to rely less and less upon them for your own pieces.
That said, keeping things "cleaner" isn't necessarily a reason to forego construction altogether. It depends - if your goal is to perform for an audience, then there's something to be said about whipping out paint or a brush pen or whatever and just jumping into whatever you want to draw. That of course would require really well developed spatial reasoning skills, along with a healthy serving of confidence. If however your primary goal is to produce a drawing to the best of your ability, there are undoubtedly going to be other avenues you can take to still use construction, but remove it after the fact. Working digitally obviously makes that easy with the use of layers, but when working traditionally there are options as well - from using a pencil which can be erased to lay down your base structure, to using transfer paper, etc. Since I don't usually work traditionally in my own artwork, I don't know of all the options that are available, but it's not uncommon for artists to develop their work in stages, iterating over the same piece multiple times to nail it as well as they possibly can, making use of all the tools they have at their disposal. Just keep in mind that the goal isn't always to produce something as well as you can - there are many priorities one might put in front of the rest, from meeting a deadline, to impressing an audience with a live performance, and so on.
Trifle-Doc
2021-12-11 19:03
for me personally, it depends.
sometimes I feel like using construction lines, sometimes I dont.
if I want it to look clean and I want to use construction lines then I would make my main medium not be pencil. I might start it with pencil and then go over it in pen, or painting, or chalk pastel, or whatever have you, and then erase the pencil. (ive never used a pencil and chalk pastel on the same piece before but ig you could)
GETitOFFmeNOW
2021-12-12 01:11
Yeah, by the time I left art school, I could draw anything without an extra mark made. I was drawing or painting for 22 hours a week in class and another 5-10 hours at home.
I am drawing far less now and I have to go back to the beginning; making complex forms by assembling simple forms.
Can't lose if you plan a little bit and lightly lay out the whole composition, developing it all at once instead of one area at a time. This seems to be the most efficient use of my time at this point.
I have a set of tarot cards made from the designs of a very old deck of hand-drawn cards from the 16th century. Some of the figures are really badly done. If only the designer had sketched his skeletons first! But back then, they didn't even know what a skeleton really looked like.
lucid_01
2021-12-11 21:09
Always.
I don't always feel the inspiration. I can't always skip a step or two in the fever of creation.
Sometimes it's about putting in the extra minutes of work to make the picture turn out. (Especially if it's for a client)
Having those fundamental construction methods on hand is great to stay "consistently" good.
To achieve cleaner drawings depends on your entire method. For example; I work in ink. My construction lines are from no.2 pencils and easily covered by ink or erased. But, my forms, shapes, and compositions would look like ass if I didn't use those construction lines in the first place.
mars_sec
2021-12-11 21:22
you are allowed to make multiple drafts, if you are not feeling confident, make the first draft with simple construction, and then put on the details, and then another draft without any construction. As many drafts as it takes, quality over quantity.
GETitOFFmeNOW
2021-12-12 00:58
Yeah, look how many studies Michelangelo made when preparing for a painting. https://www.google.com/search?q=michelangelo+details,+studies,+practice&sxsrf=AOaemvIB1NGSk_lJ-l6QrR8wXYJhpkLYqQ:1639270548002&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj39DVht30AhXummoFHZ9PA90Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1777&bih=907&dpr=1.6
LeafPankowski
2021-12-11 22:24
If I'm drawing for myself, to enjoy the result, I construct with light pencil and draw the drawing itself with ink. Erase after.
jauxro
2021-12-11 22:38
When I want my drawings to actually look good, I reference an existing style.
somethingX
2021-12-11 23:10
There's no reason to not use them, in an actual drawing they can be removed by drawing on a different layer, coloring over the lines till they're not visible or going over the main lines with ink then erasing the construction lines. It just depends on what medium you use.
Wisdomsend
2021-12-11 23:18
draw them lightly, though they add wonderful depth to my art!
drunky_crowette
2021-12-11 23:48
I just draw them really lightly and know I'll go over all of it with an eraser after I ink it
[deleted]
2021-12-12 00:21
It depends on the complexity of my drawing or if I'm struggling that day. If it's complex or it doesn't look right, I'll draw construction lines.
BronxLens
2021-12-12 00:56
Anyone knows if people such as Michelangelo and Da Vinci used construction lines as used in modern times, or did they used a different approach?
sashadelamorte
2021-12-12 04:09
I always draw construction lines. I actually like them and a lot of people comment when I'm sketching that they like seeing them in the sketch. I think they add depth to a sketch and other people like seeing how you measure.
Razilup
2021-12-12 07:48
I always draw the construction. For me, its the only way to make sure everything is where it should be and the proportions are correct. Thats just part of the drafting phase. Youll clean it up once you get to the later stages and are adding details.
Tayacan
2021-12-12 10:24
I draw them - they'll disappear in the rendering anyway, once I get that far.
If I wanna do lineart, and I'm not working digital, then I either ink and erase the pencil lines, or ink on a separate sheet of paper that I overlay on the sketch.
3dstek
2021-12-12 11:12
I keep them. Looks cooler that way
aarons-making-things
2021-12-12 11:23
I keep em. They look neat
thejustducky1
2021-12-12 13:46
If you want your drawings to look good, then you need to draw construction lines beforehand. They can be erased afterward. There is no such thing as imagining them in your mind correctly, they need to be physically drawn.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 04:33
That's untrue since there are many artists who draw them directly (EX: Peter Han who inspired Drawabox).
You just have to understand and practice how lines, shapes and perspective work, so then you can do this just by putting the major shapes and organizing them together, or just doing without any kind of sketch.
Of course, you need to build your visual library and do a lot of hard work before going into this, and you won't imagine them 100% correctly, but by no means construction lines HAVE to be drawn.
thejustducky1
2021-12-13 15:13
Those artists have been drawing construction lines daily for decades so they don't need to use them anymore. For a learning artist that hasn't yet made a professional art career, drawing and understanding construction lines is necessity.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 15:26
Which is exactly what I've said...
Though they've practiced doing things without construction lines alongside those studies, not only after being pros.
Korean and Japanese artists in particular have a tendency to do that.
They usually do croquis and urban sketches drawing contour lines directly ; outside in, instead of inside out.
thejustducky1
2021-12-13 15:51
Again, you're talking about 'learned and practiced' artists. They learned construction at some point.
OP specifically said:
Until a learning artist understands simple forms in 3d space )through practicing construction or gesture construction( they won't be able to correctly draw 3d forms that 'actually look good'. I'm saying whether an artist currently uses them in day-to-day work or not, they at some point had to draw, learn, and understand construction.
I'm not really sure what you've got a disagreement about, but if you're saying construction isn't needed and some people can innately dream up correct forms without ever studying forms, then that is incorrect.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 16:15
All I'm saying is that you should do both.
You can prioritize construction drawing, study volume and mass, placing figures and objects in perspective.
But also study positive and negative shapes + some direct drawings.
Doodles are good for that matter (specially with a pen) , it's good to relief from stress and it actually helps to make your lines better.
Studying other artists or still life with negative space exercises is also good, you learn proportions and how things situate into space, plus it also helps you with learning simple shapes.
Oh and of course those artists learned construction, like I've said at my first comment.
It's just that they were also already doing direct drawings or drawing with simple shapes (without actually drawing the spheres, cubes, etc) alongside with these studies.
[deleted]
2021-12-13 04:23
I draw the shapes first, if I see some asymmetry or errors here and there, I do construction lines before rendering.
Just to see what I'm talking about, this is a random sketch I did on my phone:
https://imgur.com/a/PMeaLKv
I'm learning this process studying other artists such as Yoh Yoshinari, Krenz Cushart, Kim Jung Gi, among some others which are good at simplifying figures.
Also Ethan Becker's videos about shapes are gold, I recommend checking it out.
Edit :
Sometimes I forgot that this sub is about Drawabox. In the context of DA I think it's mandatory to use construction lines to do the drawings, though shape knowledge is one of the most important things for any artist.