Uncomfortable's Advice from /r/ArtFundamentals

Lesson 5: Drawing Animals

http://drawabox.com/lesson/5

2017-09-18 02:39

Uncomfortable

Uncomfortable

2017-09-18 02:39

Old thread got locked, those eligible for having their work reviewed by me can post it here.

I_am_a_haiku_bot

2017-09-18 02:39

Old thread got locked, those

eligible for having their work reviewed by

me can post it here.


^^^-english_haiku_bot

Moonchild567

2017-09-24 18:51

Hello uncomfortable, I'm back with some drawings. I really enjoyed drawing animals, it was a real pleasure and I will continue drawing some in the future. But it was really hard, espacially the heads of the animals. It was definitely a hard task and I was not always happy with the results in the end. Sometimes it got quite messy and the muscle parts (added layers) were tricky. So I would have no problem, if you want me to draw more, if necessary.

https://imgur.com/a/drHnX

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

Uncomfortable

2017-09-25 20:17

You're making decent progress. As far as construction goes, you're demonstrating a solid use of forms, and a good grasp of how they interact with one another when coming together to build up to these various animals. One thing I did notice though was that you definitely are a bit heavy with the contour lines - it's important to consider before drawing a mark, whether or not that line is going to contribute something meaningful to the drawing. When it comes to contour lines, consider whether or not those already present are already doing the job you expect of the one you're thinking of adding. Usually a couple contour lines across the length of a form is enough. Overdoing it has its downsides, in that it'll make your forms appear more stiff.

The biggest area where you can improve is with your observation skills. There are many examples where things have gone great, but there are others where what you've drawn is not quite the result of what you see, but rather what you remember seeing. Looking back at your reference frequently is imperative in order to avoid the pitfalls of our own faulty memory. It's generally a good idea to keep looking at your reference as a default, looking back to your drawing only long enough to put down a mark or two before turning back to the reference.

For example, take a look at this duck. It's definitely hard to imagine that the duck actually had that wide of a stance.

Overall you're heading in the right direction, and are showing that you do understand much of what was conveyed in the lesson. There is, as always, plenty of room for growth, and you'll find that as you continue to practice this material that your control of your lines will improve, and that your sense of which lines are core to your drawing and which are more superfluous will certainly get better. What I'm most pleased to see is that you are fully accepting of the fact that these drawings are each in themselves just exercises, and you're not really getting caught up in the final result, focusing instead on learning as much as you can from each attempt.

I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, so feel free to move onto the next one.

Moonchild567

2017-09-26 16:32

Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm very glad to hear that I am moving in the right direction. I will continue working on the contouring and my observation skills (looking longer at my reference).

TheLaughingStoic

2017-10-02 01:35

All done! https://imgur.com/gallery/JUFuQ

This lesson really gave me a lot troubles. Especially near the end, to be quite honest i feel like the hybrids put me through the blender. Any who, I can't wait to hear what you have to say! Cheers!

Uncomfortable

2017-10-02 23:31

Very nice work! You may feel you struggled, but you definitely made some considerable leaps between the beginning and the end.

While the hyenas and the lions had some good points, you really hit your stride as you hit the first set of ostriches. From there, your understanding of form and space came together quite well, and your drawings gained a sense of confidence that usually comes from a sense of knowing-what-you're-doing. And the results reflect the truth in that as well.

The hybrids are specifically intended to test just how much you actually understood and learned about construction, as they force you to manipulate those forms in 3D space, rather than just being able to reproduce the 2D images we use as reference. There certainly were some hits and misses in that section, but looking over your work as a whole, I think more of the trouble came from being a little daunted by the task itself, rather than not being capable to tackle it. It's important to take these things one step at a time, and to break them up into parts - decide how you want your different animals to be fused together (and don't go too crazy), then break them up into their individual forms and build them up as you would any other construction. I do think that with some additional practice, and maybe letting yourself warm up to the challenge a bit more, you'll be able to nail that area as well as you did the rest.

That aside, you did great. I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, so feel free to move onto the next lesson.

CorenSV

2017-10-06 20:07

And that's lesson 5: https://imgur.com/a/llch5

This was a lot harder then the insects.

Texture is still a big problem. But I think that some small parts of it are slowly clicking together. Or I might be thinking to highly of myself. That's also possible.

Uncomfortable

2017-10-08 23:35

You are definitely making some big strides forward, but one thing that I noticed is that texture and detail is drawing your attention away from where it needs to be. You're caught up in getting those details right, and as a result focus less on the underlying construction of the object. This is entirely understandable, because animals tend to have a lot of complex detail to them, but it's very important that you look beyond that and focus on the structure.

On a related note, I also noticed that your underlying construction was drawn with a noticeably fainter line - a sign that you were attempting to keep the construction lines hidden. When we actively go to such lengths to hide linework, it makes it difficult at best of times to also draw those marks with the kind of confidence we need right now to keep the lines smooth and the ellipses evenly shaped. Without that, our forms end up less solid and fail to maintain the illusion of being three dimensional. From there, the construction falls apart, and the details placed on top end up being, to exaggerate, something like makeup on a pig.

Construction is everything. Don't let yourself forget that.

So, I wrote out some notes for you along with some helpful tips about how to deal with legs and such. I'd like you to give the lesson another shot, but this time no detail and no texture. Just construction. Also try to draw a little bigger, I noticed some of your drawings seemed to be a little small (when compared to your handwriting). I mean, you may just write really big, but your forms had the kind of stiffness that suggests not giving yourself enough space.

AnimalFactsBot

2017-10-08 23:35

Humans farm pigs for meat such as pork, bacon and ham.

dizzydizzy

2017-10-11 12:35

The Lesson 6 and 7 reddit threads are locked as too old to post on.

Heres my lesson 6 homework. Hopefully as mod you have the power to move this to the right place when its unlocked..

https://imgur.com/a/vSpHa

Uncomfortable

2017-10-11 13:43

Wellll I can't (that'd be a pretty nice feature), but I've added your submission to my backlog anyhow. I'll critique it later today when I get back from work. Thanks for catching the threads being locked though, I've added new threads for those lessons.

Uncomfortable

2017-10-11 21:37

Looking good! Overall your use of the techniques is coming along great, and you've got quite a few solid constructions here. For example, the staplers definitely stand out, as do the mouse and speakers.

I do believe there are some places where the initial box didn't come out too well, and that kind of hamstrung you for the rest of the drawing - but I'm glad you pushed on through instead of scrapping them and starting anew. It's important to be able to roll with the punches, and accept these things as exercises, rather than being too focused on perfection.

For the desk lamp, I'd recommend trying to establish a stronger relationship between the two boxes (the base and the head piece) - likely by starting the whole thing in a larger enclosing box. This would ultimately help you keep things aligned. Right now it's not bad, but it does feel slightly skewed.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete. Feel free to move onto the next one, but be sure to keep up with your box and cylinder practice.

dizzydizzy

2017-10-11 23:19

Thanks looking forward to the vehicles

CorenSV

2017-10-13 14:08

And here is the lesson 5 redo without texture: https://imgur.com/a/vDUDt

I've been trying to implement the things you've mentioned in the note. Not sure how successfull it was though.

Uncomfortable

2017-10-14 23:25

I definitely think you were successful to varying degrees. Your constructions do end up feeling quite sturdy and solid, so that's definitely a big plus. You may have overdone it at times with the contour curves - this usually results in more stiffness to your forms, but I wouldn't say that's necessarily the case with these drawings. I think this is in large part because of the confidence with which you applied them. That said, always keep in mind the purpose of any given tool or technique you're looking to apply - with contour curves, one or two will generally do the trick to reinforce the sense of volume of a form, so adding more on top of that isn't generally necessary.

I think you did a pretty good job with your heads as well, which is generally a point of struggle for most people. You demonstrate more awareness of the forms involved, and seem to grasp how they sit in space in relation to one another.

There's one thing I want to suggest, and it's to do with your legs. What you want to avoid is building your legs out of balls, stretched or otherwise. For example, if you look at this elephant, or this travesty, you'll notice that the legs are basically built up from ovals. This results in a sort of michelin-man sense where you've got regular pinches and inflation. Instead it's better to use something with more direction to it, where if the edge balloons out on one side, the opposite edge tucks in to compensate.

This bobcat/lynx is a good example. Notice how there's a clear sense of flow to the back legs? The forms are directional. Those back legs in particular are very well done for other reasons too - like the fact that you focused your caps/contour lines at the joints, leaving the lengths of each section relatively clear. That's definitely the way to go about it.

As I mentioned before, there certainly is plenty of room for improvement - I think your hybrids could use some work, and they're a gauge for how well your construction is coming together, as it forces you to move away from being able to rely on your reference images. That said, I believe you're not at all far off.

Keep practicing your animals, but I think you'll also benefit from moving onto the next lesson, where you can tackle much less forgiving constructions, as hard-surface, geometric objects tend to be quite challenging in a way that helps formalize your grasp of material from previous lessons.

LoBoPia

2017-10-18 18:50

Just take it. Here.

https://imgur.com/a/dW92C

Uncomfortable

2017-10-19 01:08

Honestly, I'm not sure why you were so worried about this - your animal drawings are quite well done. There is some room to improve (mostly just through continued practice), but you're applying the principles of the lesson fairly well, and are constructing animals that feel solid and believable - especially as you move through the lesson.

The only issue I noticed is one that was at first a little difficult to put my finger on, but I think I've got it.

There are definitely cases where you give the impression that you feel you are putting down flat ellipses (2D shapes) rather than constructing solid balls (3D forms). You do piece them together in a way that suggests more understanding of the form and construction, but there are these little things that you're not quite treating the act of drawing like you're sculpting something in a 3D world.

Specifically, here are a few things that I noticed:

  • Notice the head at #3. See how you first established it as a ball, but then ultimately ended up building up the rest of the construction ignoring that piece of the ball that falls inside the open beak? If the ball was considered to be a solid 3D form - like a piece of marble in the scene - this would not be something you'd be likely to do. Instead you'd have to work around what you'd already placed in the scene, either finding some way to consciously cut that piece out (cutting being an act that involves being aware of both the piece that remains and the piece that is subtracted, and how they exist in 3D space).

  • Look at wolf #1. See how its belly kind of tucks in somewhat, and you captured that by ignoring the initial trajectory of that torso mass? Again, it's ignoring form that you've placed down, rather than dealing with it in a more constructional fashion.

I do believe that there are areas where you handle this much better. For instance, many of your horses convey a very strong sense of form, especially on this page.

That said, what ends up being a real test of one's ability to construct (rather than relying purely on observation) is the hybrids section of this lesson. Your seal-horse-bird-croc was definitely interesting, and didn't come out that badly, but it did suggest that your awareness of form is something that does have room to grow.

When it comes to form, always ask yourself if you believe that something is just a shape on a flat page, or if it is a real mass in a 3D world. Think about how your forms actually connect to each other in those three dimensions, and actually draw those connections in. Notice how in this demo, on the second phase, I point out where I've drawn an ellipse where the neck and torso meet - those kinds of additional constructional elements really help me believe in the construction I'm building up. Ultimately that's what is most important, because if you are convinced of the lie we create on paper, then the little decisions your subconscious makes will help sell it to your audience as well.

While that is an area for you to improve upon, you are demonstrating excellent observational skills, and constructional skills that are steadily getting there. Keep up the great work, and consider this lesson complete.

Tarrazan

2017-10-29 00:33

https://imgur.com/a/1wPVS Here it is. I feel very conflicted with these. I spent a lot of time on them, and instead of just drawing animal after animal i tried to understand each animal before i moved to the next, yet i still think most of these drawing are lacking a lot. The eyes are the thing i struggle the most with, i just can't seem to get it right or understand exactly what i'm doing wrong. Anyways i'm stille proud of :D

Uncomfortable

2017-10-30 03:35

There are definitely issues, but we can work with this. I do however think that as you progress through the lesson, you start to fall back into old habits and lose track of what you should be focusing on. By the end, you're overly focused on detail and working too much from memory with very little direct observation.

Here are some notes about the bear. I'd like you to try the lesson material again, but this time I want to see no texture or detail whatsoever. Focus entirely on construction, and make sure you're looking at your reference 99% of the time. Only look away for a moment at a time to draw a few specific marks before looking back. Your memory is not reliable, and you need to get used to the idea of not trusting it.

Hell, you can even try drawing forms on top of your reference images before starting your actual attempt, to see how things line up.

Tarrazan

2017-11-20 02:38

Here it is! :D https://imgur.com/a/o3QhN

Unfortunately i couldn't find a proper way to to the overdrawings, because i don't have any pictures of animals or access to a printer near me. How important do you feel they are? Because then i could probably buy an illustrated book or something? :D

Uncomfortable

2017-11-22 00:36

This is, for the most part, the same as the last set. The same problem is happening - you're drawing what you think you see, relying on memory, not actually drawing what is there. This isn't inherently uncommon by any stretch, but this doesn't show much improvement from when I pointed it out previously.

You look at your reference. You identify a single form, and try to understand how it relates to the forms around it. You draw that one, single form on your page - nothing more - then you go back to your reference and find another. Start from the general forms, and gradually break them down as you develop enough underlying structure to support the smaller ones. That's what construction is, and it relies very heavily on identifying what is present in your reference.

You are doing two things very wrong, and they are both represented in this image.

  • Look at its feet. Whatever this thing is, its feet do not look like that. Those feet are entirely cartoony symbolic representations of whatever it is that you saw - filtered through your memory - not observed directly. When constructing, it's true that we start simple and move towards more complex, but that doesn't mean we start cartoony. We start simple in terms of simple forms. There are dozens of examples across the lesson and the intro video of what simple means in this context.

  • You drew a form there, that large oblong ball with the two contour ellipses. Admittedly, it does not follow the steps I outline for construction at all (doesn't start with a ribcage and a pelvis which are then used to construct a sausage for the torso), but lets set that aside for now. The rest of your drawing outright ignores it. This is not how construction works. You are not simply putting marks on the page - you are placing solid masses inside of a 3D space, and once they are there, they must be dealt with in some fashion. You cannot decide to ignore forms you've already put down no matter how bad of a direction they may be taking things. If you disrespect the solidity of your forms, no other forms present in that drawing will be able to convey any sense of weight and form. If it exists in your 3D space, you have to cut into it and carve into it - which means manipulating it in a way that demonstrates your understanding of how it sits in 3D space. If you cut away a piece, you must define how both the remaining and the removed piece exist in three dimensions.

My previous recommendation of drawing on top of printed pictures of animals (which you can do digitally as well if you have the tools) was an offhand suggestion based on your struggles with understanding the forms that actually exist (compared to the ones you're actually drawing). I don't know if it'll help, but it's absolutely worth a try because you are walking in circles here, and with each turn you're tossing aside more and more of the lessons I teach you.

When was the last time you read through the lesson or watched the intro video? And when was the last time you did any of the lesson 1 and 2 material (which you're supposed to do as warmups)? I know you're very hardworking and persistent, but I frequently get the impression that you're focusing only on drawing the assigned homework and not on reflecting upon the lesson material or revisiting the basic exercises as you're supposed to. So eventually you just end up forgetting that stuff, and falling right back into bad habits.

Try it again.

Tarrazan

2017-11-22 22:56

Looking back at my homework for this lesson i can clearly see what you're talking about. And exactly as you point my bad habits take over and i forget everything once again, ( again.) I'ts so clear when you point it out, and to some extent it's even clear when i am drawing. The longer i spend on my homework the more it justs seems like i understand less and less of what i'm doing. It's actually kind of frustrating because i just wanna get better. And maybe that's why i'm not. Because - as you point out youself - i'm focusing too much on doing the homework than anything else.

I only have a certain amount of time available each day for drawing and i think that because of that instead of just drawing less and observing more, i'm trying too draw more to maximize my time, even though it's clearly counterproductive.

I do some lesson 1 and 2 material, but very sporadically - again because of time constraints, i look through the lessons a couple of times while doing the homework, but i'm neglecting the videos. As you say it feels like i'm just running in circles and forgetting more and more, and while i feel that's the case i'm just extremely confused about how to fix it. Anyways, that's just my ramblings. I will watch your videos and do some lesson 1/ lesson 2 warm ups, and try again..again...again :p

Tarrazan

2017-12-03 22:28

Here it is again : https://imgur.com/a/nWLdV. I feel like i have understood it better this time around, but i feel like that most of the time. Has it improved or is it just more for the same? I have incorporated warm ups from lesson 1/2 and watched some of your videos

Uncomfortable

2017-12-03 23:58

That is actually considerably better. There are definitely places where your observation is still not great, but your construction has improved a fair bit. For the most part, your animals look somewhat more plausible and solid. It's definitely a big step forwards.

For now, I'm going to mark this lesson as complete. You've got a LOT of work to do on observation in general, but I think you should be ready to move onto the next lesson. You'll likely find the next one to be very unforgiving, so the main tip I'm going to give you is to think as much as you can in terms of solid, geometric forms. Only round out your corners at the very end, as many people have a tendency to treat their hard surfaced objects like organics and lose a lot of their structure in doing so.

[deleted]

2017-11-13 10:08

Hey - lesson 5 work here

https://imgur.com/a/G1wKY

I don't think I did a very good job with the legs of animals in a lot of cases, and some of the faces look a little odd too... But still, I'm pleased with how some of them came out.

Looking forward to seeing what you think!

Uncomfortable

2017-11-13 20:48

I decided it would be best to write my critique directly on your work: here ya go.

At the surface, there's a lot of good here but as I looked deeper, I started to find a lot of areas where you relied far more on direct observation than actual construction. Remember that if you don't focus on how these forms sit in and flow through 3D space, then regardless of how nice a drawing may look at the end, its effectiveness as an exercise diminishes greatly.

I'd like you to do another four pages of animal drawings, with no texture or detail (don't worry about fur and whatever right now, focus on nailing your constructions and the idea that the forms you're drawing are being placed into a 3D workd as solid masses). Don't treat your drawings as being flat shapes on a 2D page, you've got to believe in their integrity and unyielding qualities.

Once you're done those four pages, do two pages of hybrids - this exercise goes a long way to test what you actually understand about construction.

[deleted]

2017-11-17 05:22

Thanks so much for taking the time to do that - much appreciated!

I've taken another go at a few animals - https://imgur.com/a/ho68u

Uncomfortable

2017-11-18 23:29

Definitely better. Lots and lots of room for improvement, but moving in the right direction so I'll mark this lesson as complete. Here are a couple of things I noticed, and also, here's an old demo on how I would tackle an elephant: https://i.imgur.com/SrkdB5a.png in case you haven't seen it yet.

Turkopauto

2017-11-18 23:08

My stuff:

https://imgur.com/a/DZxvN

This lesson took me longer than the last one because school projects make me do stupid stuff, but it was funny looking back at the start of this assignment and noticing things I didn't back then.

Also finally got a brush pen I didn't lose yet so trying to use that towards the end.

Uncomfortable

2017-11-19 21:33

Here are some things I noticed throughout your work. I actually really liked your second attempt at the camel, I felt a lot of the construction there held up fairly well. Overall though, you are definitely not observing your references carefully enough or thinking critically about what you're drawing. One important example of this is the angle and proportions of your rib cage and pelvis. The unfortunate thing is that we don't have x-ray vision, but we can generally determine the size and angle of these things either by deduction (the relationships are pretty similar in human beings, where the torso is half ribcage and a quarter pelvis) or by looking closely for tells along the animal's body. This does require you to slow down and study your subject matter carefully however, and a lot of people will respond to not entirely knowing how something works by just drawing more (a sort of panic response). I definitely see you doing this a lot when it comes to adding way too many contour curves in certain places.

Another thing I noticed was that when you add detail and texture, you tend to treat the underlying construction with a lot less respect than you should. You're entirely willing to deviate from it, treating it more like lines on a 2D page rather than solid, unyielding forms in a 3D world.

I want you to try another four pages of animal drawings, but this time I don't want you to venture into ANY sort of detail or texture. Focus entirely on construction - detail can very easily become a distraction, and being forced to ignore it can really help. Also, before revisiting the work, I want you to reread the lesson and watch the video again. Since the work took you a fairly long time, I think it's probably been a while since you looked at the lesson material, and have probably forgotten some of it.

Oh, one last thing - ease up on your brush pen. Just because you have it doesn't mean it's necessarily the best tool for the job. Your last few pages were ridiculously heavy handed on line weight. You can use the brush pen for filling in shadow shapes, but line weight itself should be subtle and should only be applied in specific localities. That is, PART of a line rather than the whole line, usually to clarify very specific overlaps. Otherwise it ends up looking really clunky and cartoony.

Turkopauto

2017-11-27 22:40

Are these better? I had some trouble with how the legs connect to the neck, when animal necks rotate to the viewer it looks like the leg connects to the neck. So I'm wondering if I drew the forelegs correctly.

Here they are:

https://imgur.com/a/80dbT

Uncomfortable

2017-11-29 00:45

So you are definitely improving, but there are a few things:

  • Animals are like people. Little furry people. Because we all have common ancestors, there are a fuck ton of general commonalities when it comes to how our bodies are structured. Even our limbs are basically the same (it looks like they have more segments to their legs but they're actually walking on the balls of their feet, so their heel looks like a second knee, and what we perceive to be their feet are their toes). So when you say something about "how the legs connect to the neck", that's raising some red flags that what you think you see is not correct. Because if you picture a person with arms coming out of their neck, that's obviously not right. Their forelegs connect to their shoulders, which connect to their torsos. Every time.

  • When it comes to the leg construction, you're getting a little panicked and tend to miss some basic points about how the limbs flow. For example, on the fox you drew the leg's flow bending one way, when it clearly bends the other way. You're also forgetting that shoulders exist to begin with in some cases.

Here are some additional notes. Like I said, you are improving, but I want to see another four pages. Take your time, and always spend most of your time observing rather than drawing.

Turkopauto

2017-12-05 00:10

I AM ANGRY,

ANGRY ABOUT ANIMALS

https://imgur.com/a/cVzJi

Uncomfortable

2017-12-06 01:09

You definitely do get better over the course of this. The pug's a bit of a mess (admittedly it's also a difficult one), the baby rhino's a little less bad (also a difficult one with those weird ass feet) and after that your constructions are pretty decent. I do still want you to pay more attention to your observation though, I've marked in this image how there are some important things you've missed. The shape I shaded in on the left side of the forelegs is important - look at the negative space along the side of a form can help you notice certain angles that are present in a reference image.

So. I'm going to go ahead and mark this lesson as complete. Keep at it, but feel free to move onto the next one.

[deleted]

2017-12-15 23:50

[deleted]

Uncomfortable

2017-12-16 00:27

I think you may have meant to submit this to the subreddit rather than to this thread. This thread is for those who support drawabox through patreon.

Letsgo1

2018-01-02 18:07

Happy New Year.

Here is my submission for this lesson: https://imgur.com/a/rkNvt

Couple of things I noticed- I got a bit scratchy sometimes when I was thinking about the form whilst the pen was on the paper instead of ghosting it first. Ill work on that! Also sorry the piglet looks like a cross between a pig and a calf- I messed up the leg proportions and made the body a bit long but just decided to go with it!

Cheers.

Uncomfortable

2018-01-05 01:51

Your grasp of construction is coming along, but it certainly has a ways to go. You do seem to be aware of some of your issues (being overly scratchy and thinking on the page instead of trying to visualize and ghost your marks selectively, along with needing to continue to develop your sense of observation).

Another issue that I really want to highlight is the importance of treating the forms that you add to your scene as being solid, and not ignoring them when it seems convenient. A good example of this is in the duckling drawing, where you've drawn the ball for the ribcage but go on to draw over it with no consideration for the form you placed there previously. By ignoring your previous forms like this, you undermine the illusion of solidity you are creating, and flatten out your image.

I talk about this in some of the newer videos, like the scorpion demo.

I'd like you to also give the two new demo videos for this lesson a watch, as they comment further on the use of construction and how to approach drawing an animal's head.

Then I'd like you to do another four pages of animal drawings. This should give you the opportunity to demonstrate drawings that are less scratchy, as you've already identified the reason that happened. Do these drawings with no texture or detail whatsoever, so you can focus on capturing the construction and forms of your animal.

By the way, while this bunny does have its issues, it is certainly adorable.

kangoroopaw

2018-01-04 12:01

hey!

this is my lesson 5. took a lot of time with it to really figure out the concepts behind the lesson as good as i could. looking forward to your feedback and happy new year!

https://imgur.com/a/XHcgE

Uncomfortable

2018-01-05 02:34

You're doing quite well. I think you're striking a bit of a balance between your clear propensity for drawing largely from observation, and the kind of construction and grasp of solid, 3D form that we're pushing here through these lessons. You're demonstrating an understanding of how everything is built up through smaller, simpler masses, and are showing that you grasp how the different forms connect to one another in 3D space.

I especially liked your pigs. While the drawing is a little loose, you're still demonstrating a solid understanding of how all the forms come together, while also giving each piggy its own sense of character and vigor - something that can be lost when focusing too much on forms and solidity.

Keep up the great work. I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, so feel free to move onto the next one.

berd_is_ded

2018-01-05 18:58

Hey Papa. This was really hard and took a long time. The hardest part was proportion.

Here is lesson 5: https://imgur.com/a/3H4f1

Here is lesson 5's references: https://imgur.com/a/Ev2d5

Uncomfortable

2018-01-06 22:03

You do show a fair bit of improvement over the set, but it's very true - you do struggle with proportions. It's a matter of observation, and I think that is where you are at your weakest. There are definitely a lot of places where you're missing key aspects of the relationships between elements of the bodies you're drawing - the angle of the head/beak on that first one, the distance between the front and back legs on the bear.

You do have some more successful pieces, like this wolf, this booby and this kangaroo, but there are definitely still some issues.

I've outlined them here. In addition to this, I noticed that you're really going quite heavy on the contour lines. I often see this when a student isn't entirely sure about what their purpose is, and as a result just puts them all over and hopes for the best. Don't.

Usually just one, maybe two will be more than enough. Add them sparingly, and when you do, step back and think about what you're trying to use them to achieve. They are to run along the surface of a form to accentuate its volumes and highlight the flow of that surface. Each one you add will also stiffen that form - so for example, with legs, it's often better to use them at the joints, and leave the length of a section of a leg more free to flow unimpeded.

I'd like you to try another three pages of animal drawings, taking into consideration what I've said here.

berd_is_ded

2018-01-06 23:48

I've outlined them here.

The picture messed up.

Uncomfortable

2018-01-07 00:40

Damnit. I don't save those, so I wasn't able to recover it. I redid it here.

berd_is_ded

2018-01-16 06:11

Here are the 3 pages with references https://imgur.com/a/v04ge

The raccoon was the hardest.

Uncomfortable

2018-01-17 00:22

Definitely much, much better. Plenty of room for growth as far as observation goes but you're heading in the right direction. I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, so feel free to move onto the next lesson.

berd_is_ded

2018-01-17 20:16

Okay. I'm going to stop being a patron here for a bit. I may come back to finish the lessons. I want to take a break from these lessons to do my own thing which is working on Robertson's How to Draw book and Hampton's Figure Drawing book. I just wanted to let you know so you won't be wondering why I stopped becoming a patron. Your critiques have been very valuable for my growth so thank you very much!

Before I leave, I was wondering if I still get to keep my badges?

Uncomfortable

2018-01-17 20:32

Yup, you'll keep your badges. They're not technically tied to the patreon thing as a bonus or anything like that. I largely use them to track peoples' progress myself.

I hope you plan on keeping your pledge through this month however, as you have received a critique during January. While it's certainly not a $3-per-critique deal (most will maintain a pledge until they're satisfied that they've paid a fair amount for what they've received, if at all possible), cancelling your pledge before being charged for a month during which you received a critique is frowned upon to say the least.

berd_is_ded

2018-01-17 20:47

Wait I'm a bit confused. So if I cancel it today, you won't get your $3? I thought Patreon charged at the beginning of every month.

Uncomfortable

2018-01-17 21:01

You get charged at the beginning of every following month. So you pledged during September, and were first charged on October 1st.

aloneinthedork

2018-01-05 23:06

Hi Uncomfortable! I was forced to take and extended break in the middle of the semester, but I finally got around to finishing lesson 5. Here's my homework: https://imgur.com/a/b2627

Happy new year, and thanks for all the new videos!

Uncomfortable

2018-01-06 22:13

You demonstrate a great deal of improvement over the set. Earlier on, you're very clearly more focused on detail/texture than construction, and when you start out, you seem distinctly distracted by what you will eventually draw. As you push on through, your focus tends to shift and your grasp of the forms that you're constructing tends to get much stronger.

It still wouldn't hurt to try doing drawings that are just construction, so you forego all texture/detail distractions altogether, but you definitely tackled most of that issue without having it pointed out.

The only other issue I'm seeing is that through most of this, there is a great deal of wasted linework - you're quite scratchy and haphazard often times, and definitely need to step back and think more before you put down your marks.

Aside from that, you're doing great. Your horse-fish-lizard-raccoon chimera really goes a long way to demonstrate your grasp of construction. That exercise in particular really falls apart if you haven't developed a strong enough grasp of how all your forms fit together, so it works as a pretty effective marker for whether or not you're ready to move onwards.

I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, so feel free to move onto the next one.

svendogee

2018-01-17 04:32

https://imgur.com/a/N6tC1

Uncomfortable

2018-01-18 01:18

You're clearly demonstrating strong observational skills, and at the same time, you are relying on them instead of applying construction as instructed. There are a lot of mistakes you're making here that I do bring up in the newer videos for this lesson, as well as in videos for previous lessons - so I strongly encourage you to watch those you haven't, and rewatch those you have.

I've outlined the most significant mistakes I noticed in this page. You're often far too vague and loose with your construction, and too eager to skip steps (filling the gaps in with pure observation with far less understanding of the forms that should be present there).

I actually think your ram was mostly well done, aside from the issue with the ribcage and shoulder which I pointed out in my redlining. It certainly can use work, but overall your approach in terms of form certainly is better compared to many of your other drawings, where you're considerably more preoccupied with detail.

Anyway, I want you to try another four pages of animal drawings, but this time I don't want to see any detail or texture. Focus on construction only. This should be more than enough for you to capture the essence of the animal you're after. Remember that construction is broken down into phases - each one builds on top of the last, and if the information you want to put down in your current step cannot be reasonably supported by the scaffolding you've already put down, you're likely skipping over a more rudimentary part of the construction.

svendogee

2018-01-18 15:23

Ooof, that was a rough, but necessary splash of cold water. Thank you.

Went back to very basics, draw through every ellipse, ghost every line, plan every stroke, fearless construction lines. Spent more time studying skeletal structures and proportions.

Eye sockets in the skulls, and start each eye with a sphere then eye lids.

https://imgur.com/a/WRCCK

Uncomfortable

2018-01-19 00:27

So you did much better this time, primarily with that first page. You do have plenty of room to grow however, and I've outlined several issues here. I still think that you should be ready to move onto the next lesson.

svendogee

2018-01-19 01:31

I'm having a hard time on the cat face seeing the difference between the eyelids I drew and your red line one

Uncomfortable

2018-01-20 01:06

Yours has a little bit of curvature to it, but it doesn't really give me the impression that you really thought about it as though that lid was following along the full curvature of the ball's surface.

0700u

2018-01-21 13:33

Hello Uncomfortable, Here Lesson 5, Thank you!

Uncomfortable

2018-01-21 18:57

Goodness, there's a lot here. But honestly, I think you've done great. There's plenty of room for growth, but in a lot of these drawings you're demonstrating a very well developing grasp of construction, and an excellent application of the principles described in the lesson.

It's clear to me that you're understanding these drawings as a collection of solid, 3D forms, rather than just flat marks on a page. You certainly are struggling with proportions in certain places (usually heads coming out too big), but this is absolutely normal, and you clearly show improvement on this front as well.

To be entirely honest, I don't have a lot of additional advice or critique to offer. You're doing exactly what you should be - tackling issues head on, understanding things as solid forms, applying construction, etc. One thing that might help is to start out with an orthographic plan of an animal before embarking on the full drawing. That is, try to draw the animal from the side (ideally if you can find a side view of the animal, use that) with the intent of understanding its proportions better. In this case, you can reduce it to 2D shapes, largely to grasp how the different components relate to one another in terms of scale. I demonstrate this in the vehicles lesson (specifically this demo), and it can definitely be applied here.

The only other thing I wanted to mention was to be a little less haphazard when adding hatching to a drawing. Your use of it (usually to push certain forms back and make them less important in a construction) is fine, just make sure you're not scribbling it and are ensuring your lines go from edge to edge. For example, it was quite sloppy on the sloth.

Aside from that, keep up the great work. I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete. There is plenty of room for growth here, but like I said, you're moving in the right direction. It's just a matter of continuing to apply the same methodology you have been thus far when practicing. I do however think that the next two lessons will continue to help formalize your grasp of 3D form and space. These last few lessons have focused on organic objects, which can be a little more forgiving. When you're forced to deal with much more geometric forms, you'll find that you're pushed further, and the kind of structure you're forced to adapt can continue to help formalize your grasp of organics as well.

GreenInterest16

2018-01-30 21:13

I really enjoyed doing this Lesson. Every animal was one I really wanted to do. Elephants interest me greatly. I even squeezed in a few dinosaurs towards the end (who doesn't like dinosaurs?)

https://imgur.com/a/vaZkL

I started off shaky but picked up a bit after the 2nd page of the Rabbits and Hares, I feel. The Panther was a difficult one for some reason.

Uncomfortable

2018-02-01 21:25

It looks like your patreon pledge for the month of January was declined. Give me a shout once you've sorted that out and the pledge payment has gone through (I believe it'll keep trying to charge you until it's able to), and I'll critique your work.

GreenInterest16

2018-02-02 22:36

No bother. The payment was declining for some reason.

Should be working now.

Uncomfortable

2018-02-03 17:32

Thanks for getting that sorted out.

So while you are demonstrating a grasp of many of the core principles, your general use of them is definitely on the vague and loose side, and that's something I'd like us to work through before moving on.

From what I can see, your use of construction appears to be more like sketching. When you put down those early marks (defining the major masses, for example) you seem to be intentionally making those marks less solid, as if you want them to be hidden as much as possible. As a result they become quite flimsy and flat, and don't really hold themselves up as much as they could.

I want you to take far more care in drawing each form with more focus and intent - don't rough these forms in loosely, ensure that you draw each form to be solid and confident. We are not trying to hide these marks - they may not be a part of a final "pretty" drawing, but the point of these exercises is to learn about how all the forms exist in 3D space and how they relate to one another - not to create a pretty end result. They are just exercises.

I've also noticed that you have a tendency to rely strictly on observation when it comes to things like eyes - when you draw they you're not establishing a socket, then placing a ball inside and wrapping lids around them. You're drawing strictly what you see without additional construction (this is something I demonstrate specifically in the 'drawing animal heads' video from the lesson).

Here are some additional notes that I've written over one of your pages.

I want you to try another four pages of animal drawings. This time I don't want to see any detail - focus purely on construction. Leave out the fur and all of that - I don't want it distracting you from really hammering out these solid forms.

CorenSV

2018-02-01 10:33

And here is another attempt at lesson 5.

I like to think two of the birds turned out ok. I really needt o learn to draw bigger though. It's very hard to keep a clear image when you draw small with the steadlr pen.

https://imgur.com/a/ISckS

Uncomfortable

2018-02-03 17:40

Well who's this handsome fellow? He sure is proud, bein' all poofy in the chest. I think he was drawn quite well, especially his head and chest (the feet and tail are somewhat weaker to be sure).

Your drawings start out with that sense of "I kind of understand what I should be doing, but it's taking some doing to get the hang of it". As you move through the lesson though, the number of successes increases, as does their magnitude. The zebra and ibex are very well done, a great balance of form/construction and letting the character of the beast come through.

Overall your progress is fine - there's room for growth on the construction side but it's coming along well and will continue to do so with more practice. There is just one thing I want to point out in regards to your detail - when it comes to feathers and fur, you do have a tendency (especially earlier on) to let a bit of mindless scribbling/zigzagging take over. For example, on this page, and here as well.

You can see that the furry sections are drawn with either zigzagging lines or marks that very clearly weren't designed with very much consideration or forethought. You kinda let your hand do the planning there, reducing what constitutes "fur" to a simple repetitive pattern.

Whenever a mark distinctly changes its trajectory, you should be lifting your pen and starting a new line. Each tuft should be designed, thinking about how they balance against their neighbours in angle, size, trajectory, etc. Don't repeat the same mark over and over, and focus on how this impacts the silhouette. The silhouette is still meant to be an enclosed shape on the page.

You do improve on this front throughout the set, but it was a significant enough concern that I wanted to really emphasize it here.

Anyway, keep up the great work - you're showing a great deal of growth, so your hard work is definitely paying off.

Carlton_Honeycomb

2018-02-09 21:59

I've enjoyed this lesson..I was trying to get a little uncomfortable with some of the angles of the subjects in the reference photos. it worked. I'm not thrilled with all of them, but I feel like I definitely learned a lot along the way. As always, thanks for doing what you do. Here's my lesson 5 submission (with commentary).

Uncomfortable

2018-02-10 18:42

Not bad! You're demonstrating a good deal of improvement over this set, and as you go through the drawings, it's clear that you're gradually picking up more and more of what I lay down in the lessons in regard to constructional drawings.

A few things jumped out at me.

  • On this page, you talk about the feathery texture not being as good as it could have been. I assure you, if you look at a drawing and something feels off, and you pin it on the texture - you're probably wrong. That owl's head is about as flat as a pancake. You jumped into detail too early, pasting the eyes and beak on like stickers rather than grounding them in construction. You never really took the time to make the cranial ball feel like an actual three dimensional form, before attaching anything to it. That's the main issue there. Sure, the feathers aren't great, but they're not really relevant.

  • This one's better. Your fur is still haphazard, zigzaggy and not really designed on any intentional level, but again - texture is irrelevant. As far as the construction goes, you're way less timid, more willing to put down lines, and flesh out your forms. The cranial ball is actually still not great (it's too loose so it's hard to feel like it's a solid form, gotta tighten it up) but you did ground that muzzle to it rather than sticking it on like a sticker. Your next german shepherd is even better. Those forms feel much more solid. Just in the future, don't shade things in that you feel should be coloured dark. We're not rendering/shading these drawings, so as nice as it looks to have that striking dark patch on the face, save it for later.

  • Hop aboard the train to llama town. This one's got a lot of good. The fur is getting better, just keep in mind that you want to be designing each tuft individually. Never zigzag your lines (I'm not sure you're doing it here, at least not as much as you were in previous drawings), but just remember that you don't want to try and follow a mindless pattern. Think through each line. The contour lines around the neck do not wrap around convincingly, but overall the construction feels solid.

  • While this goat is not necessarily as successful as other drawings, I do feel like it 's starting to demonstrate a better grasp of 3D space. Make sure you don't just drop lines in without considering the form they belong to, as you did with the neck. You've got to flesh out how that neck connects to the torso, and bring it down all the way from the cranial ball. Don't just start it arbitrarily. Draw through your forms!

  • Your hyenas are kind of wacky proportion-wise, but one thing I caught was how you drew your legs. In this one, it looks like you drew them section by section. You should be drawing forms in their entirety, not stopping lines where they'd get overlapped by another complete form. By breaking your forms up and not drawing through them, you're breaking up their flow resulting in limbs that look stiff. Review how I draw legs in my demos, both in the video content and in the informal ones in the 'other demos' section of the lesson. I focus on establishing the overall flow, then I break them down with contour lines afterwards. I did like the head construction on this one, though that head is quite small.

So. I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, but be sure to keep this stuff in mind as you move forwards.

Carlton_Honeycomb

2018-02-10 18:56

Thanks so much for the critique. Ill review the leg building process, it felt weird doing it in segments, and youre right thats what I did...I had in my head that was the proper way.

I have an ingrained tendency to scribble and zig zag so it takes considerable forethought and attention to not so that, but I am getting better.

Re: Owl...yeah you nailed it. I didnt realize that but its about as flat as it gets on the head and my eye stickers, while I was quite happy with the shape, are lifeless little flat circles...

Excited for lesson 6! Thanks again!

CorenSV

2018-02-10 18:52

Another attempt at the animals exercise. Cause I need to do something else while doing those texture exercises. else they're gonna drive completely mad O_O Can't imagine how bad the treasure box ones gonna be!

https://imgur.com/a/7JgP6

Uncomfortable

2018-02-11 20:43

I do have a few suggestions to offer here.

  • I actually really like the owl at the beginning, but it also brings to light a few important things. From what I can see, the construction is fairly minimal. You've got the major masses fleshed out, and then you add everything else in a more detail/texture oriented fashion. In doing so you do demonstrate a well developing understanding of how things sit in 3D space, so your textures aren't flat by any means. The only area where I think you might be missing some more development is on the head. I'm not sure if you've watched the newer animal drawing videos in the lesson, but I've got one on drawing heads there. In it I talk about the importance of carving into your forms and grounding components in each other. I think that when it comes to the owl's eye sockets, and that sort of brow ridge (if you can all it that, but that doesn't really matter) you'd benefit considerably from actually cutting into the cranial ball in a more concrete fashion rather than just estimating from pure observation. Think of the face like a puzzle - you want all those major forms (the puzzle pieces) to fit together properly, and then build on top of that.

  • For the booby, watch how your initial cranial ball extends outside of what you ended up drawing. Adhere to the decisions you've made in your earlier constructional phases - don't ignore forms you've put down in the past. The decision was made, so you need to move forwards with it. Otherwise it will undermine the solidity of that construction. Also its feet could definitely use some work.

  • For the gazelle, nice attempt at the head construction. The only thing here that I want to stress is the importance of droping in a center line early, and adhering to it to keep things aligned. I think that muzzle is probably coming out from the ball at an awkward angle, which makes things look a little bit off.

  • Fur. The tufts on the top of this guy's head (also by the way that head construction is awesome, that's what I'm talking about when I mention the head being a puzzle) is well done. It's clearly intentionally designed, that tuft is not the result of your brain going on autopilot. Now look at this guy's back. That zigzagging pattern that doesn't actually adhere to the solid form of the torso is the result of your brain catching onto a repeatable pattern and going to town on it. You're not thinking about what you're doing, you're just performing an automated task. Overall, you need to limit the number of tufts you're placing everywhere (less is more! imply it in certain places, and let the viewer's brain fill in the rest), and pay more attention to the few areas you do add that kind of information.

Anyway, that's that. You're definitely progressing over all, and like I said before, your grasp of 3D space and form has improved by leaps and bounds.

I actually checked my records when I added your submission to my backlog. You've been sticking with drawabox for ages. I've got 46 homework submissions recorded from you. Some of those are definitely partial redos, but the records only go back as far as September 2015, and you were definitely around before then. It's pretty crazy.

CorenSV

2018-02-11 22:12

Earliest homework I got is somewhere april 2015. So I'm nearly 3 years in with this. Though I did take a few long breaks in between. So it sounds more impressive than it is.

Just take it as a good job on your part on how you build the lessons. They're good enough to keep people coming back and engaged for years at a time! (or I'm just stubborn. But more likely the first one.)

So good job Uncomfortable!

Lets see if the texture challenge breaks me tho :P

Ozelotl

2018-03-04 17:46

Hi Uncomfortable,

it's me again (finally) :D First of all thanks again for letting me submit this without waiting for the pledge increase to go through upfront, this is really kind!

So, I've taken about five Months for this lesson as it turns out, vertebrates are a heck of a lot more complicated than insects and arachnids. I went down that rabbit hole called anatomy and narrowly escaped when I realized that individual muscles are way too advanced and detailed for me at that point because this is about the fundamentals. Still it helped me a bit with understanding why the forms I drew looked like they look (especially skeletons are very helpful!).

I have to apologize upfront for two things I did differently than your instructions, first I did not draw legs as 2D shapes because I actually cannot draw 2D shapes, my mind simply blockades and it comes out as wobbly tentacles, so I guess the boxes have already overtaken me :D

Also I developed a more detailed structure for ribcage and pelvis - a squashed cylinder and a very squashed cylinder/almost cone thingy. With this it was way easier for me personally to identify and keep track of orientation.

That said, here it is.

While of course not everything came out as I wanted it to (looking at you Stags 1.. was supposed to be epic not derpy xD), overall I'm very happy with what I learned.

Thanks for your time,

Ozelotl

Uncomfortable

2018-03-04 20:13

At the end of the day, regardless of how you went about it, you did convey a strong grasp of the core principles of these lessons. It's less about the how, and entirely about why one might draw something in a particular fashion, and the what - the result that comes of it. Your constructions push the solidity of your animals, and show the viewer exactly how each one sits in 3D space.

You go into a good deal of depth with each component and how they all connect to one another. There's very little guesswork here, nothing pasted on like a sticker - everything's a clear form, and they all fit together like a puzzle. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

Now my one concern does come from those legs. Not because it was wrong to tackle them the way you did (it certainly wasn't), but because any time a student professes an inability to approach things in one way and therefore felt they had to tackle it in another throws up a red flag for me.

Looking back over your work, I do think I can see signs of you implementing some of that 2D-gestural-shape, at least to some extent. If you look at this leaping horse, we can see areas where you leave gaps between the forms, then reinforce the joints with contour lines. This is essentially the technique - where you allow things to get a little more gestural and fluid, and then go back to reign them back in with some solidity. It becomes particularly useful when you've got bodies in motion - everything being blocked out too strictly leads to a sense of stiffness and rigidity that can contradict the sense that the object is moving.

It comes down to seeing the limbs as being more like a series of flexible tubes at their core. You can build up muscle form around them, but starting off with something a little more like rubber will give you that sort of needed springiness. Of course, the tubes is one way of accomplishing that sort of springiness, because it allows us as a process to not worry too much about solidity at first and push the exaggeration of such things before reinforcing them afterwards. There are other approaches that can achieve a similar effect.

If we look at this page, I think we can see two separate examples - one on the left where you achieved the sense of motion quite well, and one on the right where it got quite stiff and rigid.

Anyway, I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete. Keep up the great work and feel free to move onto the next lesson.

Ozelotl

2018-03-04 22:15

Thank you for the critique!

Now with your additional explanation and the leg examples you pointed out I can better understand what I'm supposed to be doing but I think that I need some targeted practice in that area.

I mean I've been doing nothing but drawabox exercises for the last 1.5 years, because before that I was simply lost with what to do and how to draw. The lessons helped me tremendously by showing me a clear structured path of what I could do to learn and I am very grateful for that but I think I need to step away from drawabox for a while and catch up on some other areas. Not only for learning purposes but becuase I've been dying to try out some new stuff, maybe start to dabble in value etc..

Once again thanks for the time and effort you put into the critiques and all the great material!

Hopefully I'll see you in a while when I revisit these lessons and continue on to lesson 6 :)

MegaMikeNZ

2018-03-12 23:28

Apologies for posting on the wrong thread, but I can't seem to post on the lesson 4 thread at all. There's no comment field available. Has it been locked? I noticed the last submission was 9 days ago which seems strange. Anyway, here's my lesson 4. Many thanks. https://imgur.com/a/RdDKl

Uncomfortable

2018-03-13 21:56

Ah yeah, whenever a thread reaches 6 months of age, it automatically gets archived and locked, so I have to create new ones. It's.. quite the pain, but thanks for letting me know.

You're demonstrating an exceptional grasp of 3D space and form here, and are putting it great use in constructing these complex objects. On top of that, your use of texture shows a lot of thought and consideration, as well as careful observation. You do a pretty good job of organizing your details, and while there is room to grow, you're heading in the right direction and most of that growth will come through continued practice.

I had to look a bit closely to go beyond the details to identify some areas where I could recommend a few things, but I was able to find something. Always remember that construction is a matter of moving from simple to complex - in the vast majority of cases you do this quite well, but there have been a few places where it may have been overlooked.

Take a look at these notes that I've written on top of your desert weevil.

Aside from that, fantastic stuff. I'll go ahead and mark this lesson as complete, so feel free to move onto the next lesson.

MegaMikeNZ

2018-03-15 08:38

Thanks for the critique, that's very encouraging. I'll keep your notes in mind as I move on to animals.