I dusted off my sketchbooks from when I took Dynamic Sketching with Peter Han back in 2013. Figured you guys might like to see me floundering with the material.
http://imgur.com/a/EmdtF
2016-08-01 00:01
Uncomfortable
8BitBagel
2016-08-01 00:56
That's awesome! I have him followed on Instagram. How was the class? Some really neat sketches at the end. Do you think it helped you to improve?
[deleted]
2016-08-01 01:22
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 01:24
Glad you like it! If you want to see similar kinds of drawings done more recently, you might want to take a look at the big dump of demos I did a couple months ago: http://imgur.com/gallery/udZZ8
slavingia
2016-08-01 03:17
How many hours of work (class + homework) was it per week on average? Just curious. Awesome that you're sharing this!
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 03:20
3 hours of class a week, plus maybe 8ish hours of homework for that course alone (I was taking a couple other courses as well, though this one got the bulk of my attention). Admittedly the workload was considerably lighter than the drawabox versions, especially for the first two lessons.
NauFirefox
2016-08-01 06:11
It's nothing short of awe inspiring to see your work go from what i can almost do, to what i dream of. It makes it feel so much more tangible and i cant thank you enough for sharing your work.
JeffCLC
2016-08-01 07:23
Love seeing these old works, got anymore to show? :)
I was wondering if there was more scrapped drawings cause the gap from page 20-21 was large, it went from average to pretty darn good very quickly.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 16:32
Nope! I scanned the two sketchbooks in their entirety. There was maybe 30 minutes at most between the drawings on page 20 and 21. There were a couple of factors that led to the change. The first thing that comes to mind is that I switched from using a 0.3 tip (I believe that's what Peter was recommending to us) to a 0.5 tip, and found that my lines started to feel bolder and more confident, which led to me feeling more confident in general, which led to my lines becoming somewhat less stiff. The other major factor was that before drawing the palm tree, I watched Peter do a demo of that same shot, so that influenced me to make certain correct decisions that I may not have otherwise made.
[deleted]
2016-08-01 13:36
I did the first two lessons of draw a box and got discouraged, this has inspired me to pick it back up. (Never drawn a day in my life before)
These are great thanks for sharing :D
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 16:36
Always keep in mind that while the first two lessons seem simple at the surface, they have great depth to the challenges they put forward. You are never expected to nail any of the exercises immediately. Even if you're submitting the work for critique, I only mark the lesson as complete when I see that you understand what you should be aiming for - not that you've achieved it - and leave it to you to continue practicing the exercises as warmups as you continue to move forwards.
[deleted]
2016-08-01 15:07
These are mindblowingly good. Some seriously good 'sketches' here!
Rheul
2016-08-01 16:24
This is fantastic. Thanks for sharing. I'm nowhere near this skill level but would love to take a class like this.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 16:35
I think it's definitely worthwhile for any skill level, considering that it starts at the absolute basics.
pad0
2016-08-01 16:49
Thank you so much for sharing this! I've looked into this course before and it's really cool to see how it worked out for you. I'm going to work through the content on your website!
czerniana
2016-08-01 19:01
That's awesome. Do you have a before and after of your work? Would be interesting to see.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 19:55
Well, I have this album I put up a while ago of my work from the very beginning to early 2015: http://imgur.com/a/PiIK8
kairon156
2016-09-11 03:34
The isomorphic one with the beds looks awesome. I can only imagine how lovely a game made with that style would have looked.
Uncomfortable
2016-09-11 04:31
Yeah, I was really happy with how that one came out! Unfortunately it wasn't a close enough stylistic match with the company I was testing for.
[deleted]
2016-08-01 21:15
[deleted]
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 21:17
Yes, that's a little small. A4 is a good size, though I believe working on loose printer paper would be preferable to working in a sketchbook. Sketchbooks can result in people being too precious with their work, and certain kinds of bindings can be more fussy than others. With a loose sheet of paper, you can toss it out when you're done, you can very easily rotate it around as you work, and they're generally pretty easy to get your hands on.
tamarind1001
2016-08-02 02:56
So the Dynamic sketching course is $700. Is that what you did? Would you say it is worth the price of admission ? That's no longer try it and see money.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-02 03:12
Looks like it's $770 at CDA currently (so in a classroom environment, as opposed to the online option) - when I took it almost three years ago, it was $620. The value of a thing, of course, is relative to what you hope to accomplish with it. It was the first significant step I took towards changing careers, so the cost of the course was an investment.
To put things into a greater context, I spent somewhere in the realm of $15,000 over the course of the six months I was in Pasadena, between tuition, short-term rentals and living expenses, and it was worth every penny. I wasn't exactly a garbage artist going into it (this album's got a bunch of my work spanning a decade, with various key points marked out), but my fundamentals were akin to swiss cheese, and I was unemployable as an artist. The time I spent at CDA, and specifically taking this class, helped immensely to fill in those holes and generally restructure my skillset.
If you're set on a career as an artist in the entertainment industry, and you're able to take the class in-person, then the cost is negligible as long as you're able to put in the work that is required to really get the most out of it. There were a wide range of students in my class, from total beginners to those polishing their skills off, and they all had something to gain from the material that was covered.
If you're just interested in doing this as a hobby, then $770 is understandably steep, as there's no return on that investment. Also, I can't speak to the online version of the class - I do know someone who took it through CGMA (and they were satisfied with it) but I do feel that it would be lacking some of what I appreciated most about the course. That is, the one-on-one time with the instructor, as well as being in a classroom with many people at roughly your own skill level - I'm at least somewhat competitive by nature, and that really drove me forward.
But I digress. The short answer is: yes. Totally worth the price of admission, in my experience.
tamarind1001
2016-08-02 08:55
Thanks for your in depth response. It would have to be online. There is feedback it seems but it is one way, not a dialog. I have a few months off before new work commitments start up and I want to spend it going hard on the fundamentals. I am attending a real class but it is for fine art, so a fair bit of the time is devoted to charcoal and oils and controlling a pencil overhand grip for a vertical stand. None of this I will use beyond this class. Maybe I'll use this as the test. Thanks again.
nikhila01
2016-08-09 08:59
This is a little late but I think I'm well placed to answer this. I took Dynamic Sketching 1 at CGMA with Patrick Ballesteros, as well as the Perspective class. Im currently taking Dynamic Sketching 2 with Patrick (although hes using Peter Hans videos while he records his own). Ive really enjoyed it so far.
Whether its worth the cost really depends on your situation. I feel like /u/uncomfortable covered that pretty well. It was worth it to me and Im a hobbyist. If youre aiming for a career in concept art I think its even more worth it because the instructors have a lot of industry experience and can answer all sorts of questions, not just about drawing.
I can tell you a bit about what the class is like. You get a lecture video, usually an hour long. Theres a 1 hour live Q&A with the instructor. Its recorded if you cant make that time. Many students are in different countries so the live Q&A doesnt get full attendance. Theres also a recorded Q&A from the past term. And if you take it with a different instructor from the one who made the videos, you get a recorded Q&A from the video creators past class. So 3 to 4 hours of video.
For the feedback, the instructor records a short 3-5 minute video on your work. You can also see everyone elses work and their feedback videos, and you can post comments. Since its just a feedback video, its not interactive but I post comments and questions with my homework and the instructor does answer them. Plus you can bring questions to the Q&A or ask in the forum. I believe Peter Han has started doing a combined 3 hour live Q&A and feedback session to get more of a classroom feel.
Of course some things are different with an online class. The instructor cant see you drawing to address how youre holding the pen, your drawing speed, how youre positioning your body, or to see your process. Community is also difficult with an online class. The instructors and staff know this and encourage the students to communicate with each other, but its really up to them. The more you put into it, in terms of posting in the forum and commenting on peoples work, the more you will get out of it. It takes someone to start to actually get other people engaged sometimes.
Another thing is that CGMA is geared towards concept art, so Dynamic sketching includes some basic design projects to prepare you for later classes. That looks like something that /r/ArtFundamentals doesnt cover. And CGMA has something like 30 classes if you want to go beyond just sketching. I came in just wanting to learn to draw but the more I do, the more I see that I could go a lot further.
If you think $700 is a lot you should definitely go through /r/ArtFundamentals first. If you do go through all the lessons here, there is a risk that you might find Dynamic Sketching to not be worth the money though because its a similar progression. It'll depend on whether you think the experience of interacting with an experienced instructor is the main draw, or if you think that the information is what you're paying for.
tamarind1001
2016-08-10 13:57
Thanks so much, appreciate all the insight. Never too late :) I am a beginner self-teaching at the moment. I am devoting basically all my spare time to serious learning even though I would consider myself a hobbyist as well. What I am lacking at the moment is the feedback you need from a more experienced person. I feel like you can waste a lot of time without this. I have started a semester at a fine art studio just in order to get some of this feedback even thought the medium isnt what I'm interested in.
I'd be happy to pay a lot more than $700 to sit in a class like this but I'm outside the US. That leaves the online version where I'm wary that I would be paying $700 to just download some youtube vids or that the teacher would be phoning it in for the online class. From your feedback this seem to not be the case, and they are really going out of their way to make the most out of the class and help the students within the limitations? I also like the idea of there being a progression through the school you can keep stepping through. Is Patrick's approach the same as Peter's or is he developing a different class? I think maybe Peter is the most well known and his class may fill up quickly.
I think maybe the best approach is to join the /r/ArtFundamentals journey while I'm waiting for the next semester and make a decision then. After hearing from the two of you I'm tipping towards signing up.
nikhila01
2016-08-11 03:51
Yeah, the feedback is nice and they can definitely point you in the right direction. But sometimes you know what you did wrong on your own. One nice thing is being able to see the instructor do live demos because then you can see how they think. In the most recent Q&A, Patrick took some of our design homeworks (including mine) and showed us how he would do those same designs. Or someone said they couldnt do insect legs so he drew two spiders and showed tips for doing the legs. So, yes, the instructors do help you. They definitely dont just dump the information on you and then go away. Of course, everyone learns at a different speed and the more work you put in the better it will be. If your drawings arent as good as you want them to be, that doesnt mean that they will have a quick fix. Sometimes you just have to practice.
Patrick and Peter both follow a similar syllabus, which you can see on CGMA's page. There are also video samples at that link. They also both emphasize the same general philosophy of just drawing a lot, not getting caught up in details and making things look pretty, making mistakes without fear, and redrawing things if you do mess up. They just differ in some details. I believe Patrick actually took the class with Peter a long time ago. And they both teach at Concept Design Academy in Los Angeles, so Im sure they talk to each other about the class. Let me put it this way: in terms of syllabus, I think Patricks and Peters classes are both much more similar to each other than /r/ArtFundamentals is to either of them.
Its going to be tough to get into Peters class. It fills up quickly and existing CGMA students are allowed to sign up first so as to not disrupt their studies. When I started at CGMA I wanted to get into Peters class but could only get into Patricks. After you take Dynamic 1, youll be an existing student so you can switch more easily if you want to for Dynamic 2. I could have but I liked Patrick and I wanted to continue with him. I wouldnt rule out one day taking it all again with Peter :)
By the way, Dynamic Sketching 1 only covers Lessons 1-3 of /r/ArtFundamentals. In the 2 months until the next term starts you could probably get beyond that. But if you want to just keep practicing those fundamentals it will really help. Lines, ellipses, boxes are something that should be practiced constantly. Like every day. I should be doing it right now :)
Frostysmurf1
2016-08-07 06:07
I'm really feeling the "how to quit your job" page right now.
Too bad our desks are bolted to the walls.
[deleted]
2016-08-09 14:26
Oh my god! This makes me so happy! I wish my sketchbook looks like that but I'm afraid to put down anything that's not perfect :(
I just discovered this sub and I'm so excited to start doing this!
Uncomfortable
2016-08-09 17:35
Just do your best to push that fear to the back of your mind. You will make mistakes - you'll make a LOT of mistakes. It's entirely necessary for you to make mistakes, because we don't learn from our successes. We only learn from reflecting upon our failures.
[deleted]
2016-08-09 23:40
Okay :) I'll keep that in mind.
So I started some of the lessons, and I have a couple questions:
-
How long does it usually take for each part of the lesson? Like do you expect us to complete a lesson a day if we have time, or over a series of days (like a part per day)? Just so I know the usual time frame, since I already did a part today :)
-
You have homework recommendations, like 2 pages of exercise 1, 1 page of exercise 2, etc. Do we need to absolutely complete 2 pages of it if we would like you to check it? I did one page of each...
Uncomfortable
2016-08-09 23:47
-
Thinking about it in terms of how much time you should take is a bad idea, it'll drive you to rush and feel inadequate. You should aim to put in as much time as is required to put your absolute best towards every exercise, regardless of how much time it requires. If you submit anything short of the best you're capable of, any critique would be inaccurate. That said, the lessons are going to take a long time to complete. I've had people take anywhere between 8 and 12 hours, likely many taking much more than that, to complete lesson 1.
-
You must complete at least the minimum required amount. Consider the mindset that drives one to bargain, trying to get away with doing less work. Is that the sort of approach that is going to result in that person improving their skills? This is not abnormal for someone just starting out, but it is something you are going to have to work on changing. Discipline, time and direction are the ingredients required for progress - without discipline, you won't get far.
[deleted]
2016-08-09 23:54
Okay thanks :) you brought up really good points. I'll take my time with it, and go back and complete more stuff since I assume I can use the practice anyhow lol. As for the time thing, I suppose ties into point 2, with the work that has to be completed :)
maniacarms
2016-08-11 14:12
Thank you so much for this comment and post(and for running this program, I guess~).
I get very anxious before starting any session which ends up making it take forever for me to start. This comment calms me down a lot, and I'm saving it for later. :P
Ceeereal
2016-08-29 14:05
RemindMe! 12 hours "Go draaaw"
RemindMeBot
2016-08-29 14:06
I will be messaging you on [2016-08-30 02:06:20 UTC](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2016-08-30 02:06:20 UTC To Local Time) to remind you of this link.
[CLICK THIS LINK](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=[https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/comments/4vjs1i/i_dusted_off_my_sketchbooks_from_when_i_took/d71745j]%0A%0ARemindMe! 12 hours ) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete Comment&message=Delete! d7174x9)
|^(FAQs)|[^(Custom)](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=[LINK INSIDE SQUARE BRACKETS else default to FAQs]%0A%0ANOTE: Don't forget to add the time options after the command.%0A%0ARemindMe!)|[^(Your Reminders)](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List Of Reminders&message=MyReminders!)|^(Feedback)|^(Code)|^(Browser Extensions)
|-|-|-|-|-|-|
kevandbev
2016-09-06 02:06
How to quit your job...is gold
Uncomfortable
2016-09-06 03:52
Hahaha, yeah, I'd just quit my job (not at all like that, but a guy can fantasize, right?)
ThrowawayXTREME
2016-09-06 20:02
Are all of these lines with a felt tipped pen? I feel having my VP lines be lighter would help, but I know pencils are a no-no. Yet I look at your drawings and see lighter VP lines. How were those achieved?
Uncomfortable
2016-09-06 20:06
Yep, it's all felt tip pen. The lines going back to the VP appear lighter because I've added more weight to other lines. Everything is relative, so if some lines are thicker, your range expands and the thinner lines appear lighter.
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 00:59
It was probably the single biggest factor in me improving from the level of a sloppy self-taught hobbyist to someone who could manage to scrape up lower-end work. I mean, I had a wide variety of experience and skill from the decade I spent teaching myself, but it was all scattered and disorganized. This class really helped me bring it all together. One year later (although not strictly just because of this class) I got my current job, as a concept artist at a small game studio.
wirbolwabol
2016-08-01 05:19
I'm in that self taught group that could use refinement. I just doodle a lot and started using a rougher technique(I was told to stop trying to make a perfect line every time) that an illustrator friend used, though they seemed to have a better sense of the organic than I ever did very similar to your style.
Edit: Meant to also say I love your drawings and stuff, btw....it's pretty amazing stuff! :)
Uncomfortable
2016-08-01 05:23
Honestly, I've seen a lot of self-taught artists get caught in the pitfall of defaulting to a rougher "style". I remember doing that ages ago, it didn't do me any favours because it just let me avoid learning how to properly control my mark-making.
Ultimately there's a lot of people who fall into the category of self-taught artists with fundamentals like swiss cheese - full of holes. It's one of the primary reasons I started this subreddit, even though I likely have more beginner students than self-taught ones.
wirbolwabol
2016-08-01 05:51
Interesting observation. I felt my sketches were more natural and gave me some freedom to make some mistakes though also mask them. Maybe not the best approach, but it was just for quick sketches. I do feel that improving my skills and filling in the gaps would be essential as well as time to focus...which I have a bit more of at the moment.
I do look forward to going through the exercises and tighten up my drawings as the looseness is great for the quick lunch sketches but I also do want a bit more refined work for an eventual portfolio.