Uncomfortable's Advice from /r/ArtFundamentals

An Ongoing Record of Homework Submissions

https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/comments/3tkh9q/an_ongoing_record_of_homework_submissions/

2015-11-20 14:16

Uncomfortable

This is the spreadsheet I use to track the homework submissions I receive. I started using it at the beginning of September, so there isn't anything from before then. I generally add new homework submissions as soon as I see them, so I don't have to worry about tracking them in my reddit inbox.

If you want to know if your homework has been acknowledged, you can take a look at the bottom and see if your submission is listed. If it isn't, there are two possibilities:

If yours is in there, everything is fine. Usually I get to it on the same day, sometimes the next day, and every now and then I'll be running behind (as I am right now). Since I have a full time job, and pursue other projects that are a lot more interesting to me than running drawabox, there will be days when I just won't do any critiques. So, if you don't hear back from me for a few days and you are listed on the spreadsheet, just be patient.

[deleted]

2015-11-21 01:48

I'm so bad. I need to finish lesson one. I'm graduating next month so I hope I can find the time

[deleted]

2015-11-23 17:25

Holy shit, dude. Words (nor drawings... well, maybe through improvement) cannot describe my appreciation of the work you do. Maybe one day I can finally find the time to actually post here.

Just curious... ever thought of recruiting for mods for the subreddit? Just to lighten the load a bit?

Uncomfortable

2015-11-23 18:12

It crossed my mind early on, but I've since decided that it's not a good idea. Through the drawabox patreon campaign, I do receive compensation for the work that I do. Recruiting other moderators would complicate things immensely.

I think I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing - taking breaks every now and then as I did back in August (where critiques were limited to patreon supporters). Eventually though I will stop and move onto something else, leaving the lessons up but halting critiques completely. That's an inevitability, since it does take up a significant portion of my time, but I don't have any concrete plans of pulling out just yet.

benji1304

2015-11-23 21:09

wow, this makes me feel awful that I haven't finished lesson 1! Great tracking idea.

Last time I saw and drew doing the exercises for lesson 1 I spent a good 1 - 2 hours on the exercises but my motivation fell away. Would you suggest shorter spells?

edit: with the amount of work you're putting in if I do get around to doing this more regularly then I'd consider the Patreon to help out as well.

Uncomfortable

2015-11-23 21:10

It all depends on the person. It is however important that you take breaks regularly and spread it out over several days. There's a lot there, and if you spend too long on it in a single sitting, you'll get sloppy and lazy. So, if a shorter span works for you, then that's what you should do for now.

benji1304

2015-11-23 21:13

Definitely got sloppy and lazy. I also have a partner who I see as having 'natural' art skills and her advice is usually "just keep drawing, doesn't matter, just draw".

Maybe getting a smaller pad and a case to practice when out and about (I commute daily by public transport).

Uncomfortable

2015-11-23 21:58

Anything is better than nothing, but I strongly believe that people tend to gain more from setting aside time to really put their mind to something. It doesn't matter how long, but if the environment is conducive to hard work - a clean desk or table, for instance - it will impact your mindset. Conversely, doing your work in a hectic environment has a good chance of leading you to get distracted very easily.

As far as motivation goes, this might be worth reading.

Coasty

2015-12-13 20:07

Hello, I have a sort of follow up question. You mention a desk or table. Is it also acceptable to draw with the tablet of paper on my lap or does using a table have better outcomes? I ask because sometimes I may want to draw at my computer desk but the actual desk space is too high to be comfortable and the keyboard tray doesn't have enough space to also hold my sketchpad.

Uncomfortable

2015-12-13 20:14

Being a wee feller, I often have the same problem. Hell, at work I sit on a big fat cushion to make sure that I can position myself over the desk and really dominate the space.

That said, my concerns about one's workspace and posture is less about the physical situation and more about how it impacts one's mindset as they draw. We're not always conscious of it, but we have a tendency to be sloppier when we draw in a sloppy environment. As you become aware of it, you can compensate - but that takes time, and just being superficially aware of the issue from me telling you won't make a big impact.

Were I in your position, I probably wouldn't draw with the pad in my lap. It just doesn't seem terribly steady, and mentality aside, that ain't gonna do much good for your back.

[deleted]

2015-11-27 11:56

I generally need to keep my mind busy if I want to keep motivation on the long run (unless the task requires it all).

For finishing lesson 1, I'd read the material, practice 1-2 cases, then have a podcast/TV show in the background while I write. If I'm drawing+listening, my brain doesn't have enough space left to complain. I used to do the reverse in class: drawing while listening to prevent myself from day-dreaming.

Uncomfortable

2015-11-28 19:59

I often do that too, though the more I think about it, the more I realize that I'm just coddling myself. The few times that I sit myself down and just paint or draw without a TV show or movie running in the background, I tend to be vastly more efficient. That said, I find documentaries running in the background instead of TV shows shows a marked improvement as well.

rushed1911

2015-12-11 02:09

I can see how maintaining drawabox is tedious, maybe you should run it like levelup (the facebook group/youtube page) and just let people peer-review the work. and just focus on making new lessons with Patreon or a possible kickstarter

Uncomfortable

2015-12-11 02:17

That was the plan initially - or at least somewhat. Not so much a free-for-all critique (there are plenty of subreddits like that, and frankly just because someone's offering their two cents doesn't mean their critique is going to point you in the right direction). Instead, my intention was to have people who proved themselves by completing the core lessons to then go on and critique others. I did test that out a bit, but people have their own lives and their own pursuits, and don't really have the time to reliably meet the demand. There's no reason for someone who knows what they're doing to spend that time, so ultimately they don't.

The other end of the spectrum would be to take on a couple qualified folks to spread out the workload, but that would mean splitting up the patreon income. Really not worth it for me.

gleb_vga

2015-12-11 09:01

Pardon me if the following ideas was already considered and discarded, but how about this:

We have two problems here:

1) A random person on the internet, even with best intentions, isn't necessarily good at giving art critique. So we can't just let anyone judge everyone's artwork, as it will devalue the critique and bring chaos.

2)Upbringing people to the status of new teachers doesn't give results. For the simple reason that people, generally, learn to draw to start drawing things they want, not to teach others in turn.

The good thing is, what you do is actually working, people are learning and this subreddit has a steady source of proof of this fact.

What I think is you've probably accumulated quite a collection of homework submissions, especially for the first lessons. That's a good number of drawings accompanied by your own critique, tips, tricks. Maybe the general process of assessing a submission can be generalized to a set of guidelines with examples of what to look out for, applicable tips for common issues and such? Such a guideline may help the people who finished the course to pick up the pace of submission assessment a bit, as it will reduce required time and commitment somewhat. More importantly, it will give the other people new opportunity to provide at least baseline-passable critique to their peers, combining the much-needed benefit of the fresh eye with a set of guidelines supporting the quality of critique content.

It will not be the best critique, sure, but it will have some known value, at least.

Uncomfortable

2015-12-11 13:35

That is actually something I've considered - or at least, in some form. Regardless, it's a very good idea. I have certainly compiled (mentally, not written down) a lot of very common mistakes that people tend to make, and have been wanting to post them on the website for quite some time, more for people who self-critique rather than having people critique others (though there's really no issue with the latter). I haven't gotten around to it, but it's on the list of things I'd like to do this month, probably on the top of the list.

Thanks for your input though! It's certainly nice to see that other people have considered a similar idea to have worth.

rushed1911

2015-12-14 21:27

If I remember correctly, doesn't stack exchange/overflow have a model that (mostly) solves these problems? There already is conjure.io which is like a github/slack for creative works, if that was combined with it, it would be a good platform for a drawabox 2.0 So basically a Telescope app version of stack exchange linked to a conjure.io-type software. I'm not a programmer so I'm curious what you think of this?

Uncomfortable

2015-12-14 21:55

Based on a cursory glance, conjure.io is a team-based system that just makes it easier for existing team members and clients to give feedback on a project. The dynamic between the creatives and the people giving feedback is very different from the nature of drawabox.

The stack exchange model is one that could work in theory, but in order to function it requires a pretty massive scale, where all of the bad feedback is overshadowed by a decent amount of good responses. In a way, that is not dissimilar from the system I initially wanted to create for drawabox, ultimately to increase user participation and decrease my workload. I did have certain concerns about the model though, especially questioning peoples' willingness to give helpful, meaningful critiques. Answering a question or helping to debug a small section of code is one thing, but critique is fundamentally different. It's not about finding a concrete answer - it's about pinpointing what the individual is not understanding, and separating it from the mistakes one makes just by not yet having enough practice. It's a situation where everyone may ask the same question, but the answer needs to be at least to some degree tailored to each individual.

Anyway, I'm not interested in doing that any time soon. As a game developer, I'm far more interested in other kinds of projects - this whole drawabox thing is a minor project that's gotten a little bit out of control. Right now I'm trying to dedicate myself to a different project I've been trying to finish off for quite some time, so I'd much rather not be distracted from it.

rushed1911

2015-12-14 22:25

Fair enough. If your not interested, your not interested. You've already done something meaningful with drawabox

So there's a space for something like this but there are also fundamental design/usecase differences with a stack exchange/conjure.io model.

Thankfully I'm friends with a programmer so I'll see if he's interested in a possible mvp for a drawabox 2.0

Anyone else interested?

Aurontwist

2016-03-22 17:34

I'm kinda interested in it. Could you tell me a bit more about the project? Actually I'm ui/ux and front-end developer.

TEXg

2016-01-21 14:11

I have a question(and don't really know where to post it, so I'll leave it here). Is it better to draw toward or away from your hand?

See, I'm left-handed and for a while I've been doing the exercises in Lesson 1. I also started thinking that right-handed people actually draw towards their hand, since we write from left to right.

So should I keep drawing from left to right(away from my hand) or should I do it from right to left(towards my hand)?

Thanks in advance.

Uncomfortable

2016-01-21 14:48

I can't really speak to left/right handedness, and personally I tend to push my lines (drawing away) rather than pulling (drawing towards myself), but I have heard about people specifically pushing their straights and pulling their curves (specifically in regards to calligraphy - http://seanwes.com/2015/quick-tip-to-draw-straight-lines-avoid-shaky-hand-lettering/). That said, I remember when originally reading that article, the comments were full of "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T PULL YOUR CURVES" so there's definitely a largely split opinion on the matter.

I would say do whatever feels natural to you, but remember that the greater priority is that you think through and plan before every mark you put down. Put emphasis on ghosting through your drawing motion as described in the lesson, and be sure to draw from the shoulder for any larger lines. In this case, calligraphy works at a relatively small scale, so that article doesn't factor in what is required to draw longer, fluid, curving lines. So don't get caught up in the whole pushing/pulling thing and forget about locking your wrist and drawing from the shoulder.

ReDraw-mind

2016-02-14 20:44

Hello Irshad, i just wanted to submit lesson 4 HW & i couldn't found a new thread for it as the old one is archived already so i don't know where to post my homework or i missed the new link ?!

Uncomfortable

2016-02-14 20:48

Looks like the lesson had the wrong link attached to it. This is the current submission thread for lesson 4: https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/comments/3jizw8/lesson_4_drawing_insects_and_arachnids_version_3/.

kiepomas

2016-03-22 17:09

So this is a track/submission of the lessons from the other stickies post correct? I'm really interested in starting to work through this!

Uncomfortable

2016-03-22 18:51

Pretty much. People submit their homework as a comment to the corresponding lesson's thread (so for example, lesson 1's is https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/comments/454qvk/lesson_1_lines_ellipses_and_boxes/, each lesson's got an orange button at the top that links to its post). Then I record the submission in the spreadsheet. It lets people know that their submission's been received, and it also helps me avoid missing submissions (which used to be a problem).

... it also lets me show people how hard I work! Almost 1000 critiques in 6 months!

inamsterdamforaweek

2016-04-15 07:58

Ok. just found about this sub and started the lines homework! Exciting!!

Still, i run in some problems...

  1. My lines finish weirdly, like a "seen" sign at the end,i guess it has something to do with how i end the line.

  2. I can do a couple of straight lines if i don't start from a fixed point. That is if i ghost lines in the air and then just put it on paper, the line ends up being pretty good. but if i stop, put the pen on the paper and then try to go with the line, it wobbles.

  3. I keep my wrist fixed and i think that's a great improvement! That being said, most of my lines are from the elbow, i don't really understand how to move it from shoulder. is this normal?

That being said,i love it, and i hope i'll get better!!

Thanks for this

Uncomfortable

2016-04-15 13:38
  1. No idea what you mean by this. That said, the super-imposed lines exercise will generally diverge on one side from your goal, so you'll definitely see some separation at the end even though you're doing it correctly. The goal is of course to have the lines sit perfectly on top of each other with no separation, but that takes far more practice than the first lesson requests. All you're doing here is showing me that you understand what to aim for.

  2. Right now you're more used to drawing confidently once you've got that momentum before the pen touches the page. Unfortunately this approach will not allow you to draw as accurately as you'll need to, and you'll end up with a lot of lines that start too early, or start too late. Just because a particular approach is easier doesn't mean it's better - it simply means you don't have enough practice with the other method. What you need to practice is your ability to draw with a confident pace despite starting from a resting position. When ghosting your lines, make sure you're repeating the same motion - that is, starting from a resting position at the fixed point, not before it.

On the topic of not understanding how to move your arm from your shoulder, try doing this exercise:

  • Hold your arm up in front of your chest and pivot your hand at the wrist back and forth, familiarizing yourself with the limited range of motion it offers.

  • Then lock your wrist and pivot your arm from the elbow, back and forth. This will give you a considerably wider range of motion as you move your arm back and forth, again familiarizing yourself with how it feels.

  • Finally, knowing what it feels like to move your elbow, lock that joint (as well as your wrist) and try moving your arm from the shoulder joint exclusively. Being familiar with the movement from a particular joint should make it somewhat easier to also cease and lock that movement altogether. This in turn will allow you to familiarize yourself with what it means to draw from your shoulder.

When I was getting used to it, I'd perform this exercise whenever I felt a little bit uncertain about how I was moving my arm. It's a quick thing you can do in five or ten seconds to refresh your memory. The other important thing is not to pivot at multiple joints simultaneously - a lot of people try to get by moving their arm from their elbow and shoulder, but I don't recommend this for beginners as it makes the motion rather muddy instead of deliberate and controlled.

inamsterdamforaweek

2016-04-15 17:45

Very useful responses. Man, you are awesome, gonna contribute to patreon. I'll be the cheap guy with 5$/month but i'll try to add more as i progress [ and hopefully my finances too ] :).

I see what ou mean by shoulder but it seems to me that drawing from shoulder implies that i am very far away from the page. It feels really natural from the elbow for now. But I shall try the shoulder way too.

And i know exactly what you mean with easy vs good :)

karma-twelve

2016-04-27 07:39

Would you be willing to accept submissions that are drawn digitally using a Wacom Cintiq? I would like to do lesson one and gain some control with the tools i generally work with.

Uncomfortable

2016-04-27 12:31

Unfortunately, no. My reasoning against accepting homework done digitally goes beyond the disconnect that comes with a regular tablet, but rather hinges upon the medium itself. I explain that in detail here: http://drawabox.com/article/ink.

While there is certainly benefit to doing the lessons digitally, I do not recommend it until you've been able to go through the exercises in ink, so that you fully know what to expect of yourself when completing them.

[deleted]

2016-05-12 20:30

[deleted]

Uncomfortable

2016-05-12 22:25

Homework can be submitted as a comment in the lesson's post on this subreddit. Each lesson page has a yellow/orange button on the top that says "View Homework Submissions on Reddit", which will take you to the reddit thread associated with that lesson. You'll have to host the images themselves elsewhere though - most people use imgur. Before submitting, go over the self-critique resources for that lesson (blue button on the top of the lesson, though right now they're only there for lessons 1 and 2), and that you've met that lessons' requirements in terms of medium, prerequisites, etc.