Uncomfortable's Advice from /r/ArtFundamentals

Lesson 7: Drawing Vehicles

http://drawabox.com/lesson/7

2015-03-28 08:10

Uncomfortable

[deleted]

2015-05-01 23:11

[deleted]

Uncomfortable

2015-05-02 20:28

Awesome work. The biggest problem that I'm seeing though is that you have a tendency of using very dramatic perspective, and that is making things much more difficult than they need to be.

Any attempt at actually having solid vanishing points (visible on the page) are going to result in this. The closer together those VPs are, the more dramatic that perspective gets, and the more distortion you'll see in the resulting drawing. Instead, always try to use your horizon and that initial box as your points of reference. Together, they just about allow you to approximate the angles of your other lines.

There's definitely a lot of room for growth, but I think you're moving very much in the right direction. I especially love the '69 Camero drawing at the bottom of page 8, and the drawing on the bottom of page 10. Your tanks are pretty well done too. In general, there's a lot of great stuff here. At times things get a little loopy and distorted, but you'll iron that out as you get more accustomed to this sort of drawing.

I'll mark this lesson as complete! ...Except there's no actual badge for it... Eventually I'm going to transition all the critiques and profiles to the drawabox.com website, so once it's there, you'll have a fancy badge to show off your achievement.

Keep up the good work!

[deleted]

2015-05-02 23:51

[deleted]

Uncomfortable

2015-05-02 23:58

Ultimately that's the intent. I want to develop drawabox.com into a completely separate and self-contained community. The website will be redesigned and rebuilt with login/registration, homework submissions, badges for lesson completion and the ability for people to critique each other.

That said, I do intend to one day play a less direct role in critiquing everyone's work. I'll continue doing that for some time, but eventually I want critiquing to be a skill that members develop - as it is just as valuable as technical skill. If you can critique another's work, you'll be able to see your own flaws more effectively as well. Of course, before a member can critique someone's homework, they'll have had to have completed the homework to a very high level - showing me that they've understood well enough to share their knowledge.

I'm not sure if that'll work out (people aren't that keen on critiquing others), but I'll try and incentivize it somehow. While writing a new lesson every week isn't too taxing, it's unrealistic to expect to be able to personally critique everyone's work until the end of time - especially as the community continues to swell.

I'd have actually started on the whole redevelopment of the website sooner, but my designer is currently finishing up work on another project, and I'm heading into a pretty rough few weeks at work. At the end of the day, my full-time job always takes precedence.

Milvolarsum

2015-05-18 11:46

Finally finished too. http://imgur.com/a/bHcqw

After I realised how difficult cars are to draw I only drew them. Some are good..some not so ^^ I´m thinking about trying to get really good at them. But first I have other things to learn, too.

Uncomfortable

2015-05-19 23:02

I'm seeing a lot of great shapes and lovely breakdown of complexity into simpler elements. I think the reason that they're hit-and-miss though is that you're kind of missing out on a lot of the basic techniques I mention in my lesson.

For example, you don't start defining the overall box (first step) until later on, and even then you don't find midpoints and subdivide it to carry your proportions over properly. Without the box grounding you and defining your space, it becomes very easy to end up with skewed drawings.

Your drawings are pretty good - some of the cars are very well done in fact - but I can't mark the lesson complete because you're not using the methods I teach, and are therefore missing out on key concepts.

I'd like to see four more pages of these, using those techniques. Also, drawing through your forms instead of just focusing on the lines you'd see in the final drawing will likely help you increase the solidity of your forms.

Milvolarsum

2015-05-24 10:19

Here it is. http://imgur.com/a/E2Glh

I find working with the box approach much more difficut in the beginning. I have trouble to judge the propotions and distances right. at least on things like cars. But I guess to fix that I just need to draw more.

Uncomfortable

2015-05-24 19:25

maan, come on. All you did was draw a box around it and then do exactly what you did before. Go back and read the lesson! You've gotta start with defining the space (the box), then establish your major forms and break them down into increasing levels of complexity. You're diving into the complex really early.

I know my demo images jump very quickly through the process, but in the description on the side, I explain that I'm moving through it quickly, since the same concepts were covered in the previous demos.

As always, do your proportion study, then block in your forms.

It may help for you to practice your form intersections as well. One thing I've told others to do in the past when they've struggled with this is to do form intersections, but to construct them as though they were constructing a vehicle. So no reference, but just constructing things with absolutely basic forms (no detail) that look like they could be driven.

Milvolarsum

2015-05-25 15:03

I will try doing the thing with the form intersections.

But right now I just do not fully understand what I should do. I mean I understand it logically. Still something doesn´t completely add up. Maybe I´m really thinking too complex right away.

Edit: I think I got what my problem is. In my head once I try to break up what I see into simple forms, I´m beginning to see too much. Instead of breaking down a wheel into a simple circle, I see Spheres, zylinders and organic forms. I´m even visualizing what´s inside the wheel.

I didn´t do this 2 months ago but now it´s somehow automatic. And if I try to take a step back, I tend to go too far ultimately only seeing the space that my drawing object is filling. In a way I tricked my self into thinking I was doing form intersections.

Uncomfortable

2015-05-25 21:35

The problem is essentially that while you may be seeing those things in your mind's eye, you're not drawing them onto the page. Because of that, you're not properly able to wrap your head around how they exist within the same space. This causes the forms that you do draw to be misaligned to one another. By actually doing the form intersections, you'll go back to drawing each individual form on the page, drawing through them when necessary.

Milvolarsum

2015-06-04 06:47

Is this better?

http://imgur.com/a/6Y82S

Uncomfortable

2015-06-04 19:31

On one hand, they're looking a lot better - the form intersection stuff helped you consider more of the subtler elements that make the forms look convincing.

On the other, you've completely abandoned the box approach. All things considered, you aren't doing worse than before due to this decision, because you weren't really using the box-block-in correctly beforehand either. There are areas where using this technique would have avoided some issues.

For example, in the middle of your last page, you've got a car from the rear. The rear window is not sitting parallel with the rear lights and that whole section.

The whole idea behind the box-block-in is that you start off with a box - it should be fairly easy at this point to get a box to look right. Then you subdivide that box and start approximating out the form of your vehicle. Doing so will help you maintain those parallels where they are required, because there's very little guesswork - each line you draw is derived from others.

Your cars generally do look pretty good (probably better than what I can draw when it comes to cars), but those little discrepancies will stand out in the long run.

Milvolarsum

2015-06-05 05:47

Ok, I will do 8 more pages doing both. Any tips on how to get the proptions correct? I have the problem that after drawing the box I get some serious perspective errors which I only see later in the game.

Milvolarsum

2015-06-08 17:30

Before I move on to the next lesson can you look over those pages? I think at least some of them are much better :)

http://imgur.com/a/iKTRX

Uncomfortable

2015-06-09 00:18

Definitely improving considerably. Still a few proportional issues here and there that come from.. pretty much ignoring what I've pointed out the last few times.. but they're definitely way better than the first set you shared. I especially like the way you deal with curves. The two bottoms of page 1 are my favourites of the lot, especially the one on the right.

[deleted]

2015-06-09 17:30

I made the boxes with a ruler and the cars by hand, hope that's ok. I also found that I made more than a few changes in the 3-d view after I've drawn the side view. Also some of the cars are amalgamations of slightly different cars.

E.g: I would draw one specific car from the side, then find similar car(s) and look at both them and my drawing when drawing in perspective.

I particular like the tank.

http://imgur.com/a/O6Di9

Uncomfortable

2015-06-09 21:58

Your results, though a bit cartoony (because of your proportions), aren't bad. You are however completely missing the point when it comes to the use of the box. You draw a box, but then just draw your car normally within the box, mostly ignoring that it's even there.

Your approach should be:

  1. Proportion study - your rectangle should match the general width and height of your object, and that object should fit snugly within it.

  2. Draw a box that matches the general width/height/depth of your object

  3. Based on your proportion study, start subdividing that box your major shapes - you can use more boxes for this, even for your cylinders. Draw deliberately - don't sketch, don't explore on the page. Think about what forms you need to draw, and then consider where in the box they are going to fit.

  4. Start refining your subdivided forms - turn your wheel-boxes into proper cylinders, start defining any curves you might have - but make sure you're building right off of this structural lay-in of boxes. If you ever find yourself drawing random lines floating in the air, you haven't subdivided enough and you're making too big a jump without any underlying structure.

Look at the train demo again. The video recordings for the train and tank might help as well, though I'm not sure if you have access to that.

Either way, the main point is not to jump ahead where you have no framework. It's like crossing a river, but you're slowly building the bridge under you while you cross. You lay down some planks, then take a step. Then lay down some more, and take another step. You can't take two steps, because there will be no planks and you will plummet to your death.

.. iknowthatsnothowbridgesworkbutitsametaphorD:

On another note, I too very much like your tank. It says a lot though that the front of the tank is set at a completely different angle from your initial box, though.

Give it another shot.

[deleted]

2015-06-10 22:15

You don't have to respond to it since it's not all of the homework. So feel free to tell me to complete the whole assignment before you'll critique. I just want a pointer.

This time I tried to draw the vehicle to conform to the box. Sizing it up so it matched the car I was going to draw. Don't think my method going from side-view to 3D is ideal.

http://imgur.com/03Q9S56

Uncomfortable

2015-06-11 03:09

http://i.imgur.com/jaF28AJ.jpg

[deleted]

2015-06-14 17:23

Here is my second attempt:

http://imgur.com/a/NYjcN

My drawings are still cartoonish, but I hope I'm utilizing the box better this time around. Is it passable, or am I still missing some essential part of the lesson?

Uncomfortable

2015-06-14 18:35

It's definitely getting much better - now your main problem is a matter of observing your reference. This breaks down into two areas - your proportions, which are the main reason that they're coming out as cartoony, and your identification of the smaller forms that exist in your reference.

I do believe that drawing as small as you are is hindering you from being able to incorporate some of the smaller details as independent forms that exist as part of the construction. Instead you tend to drop them on as fairly simple lines or 2D shapes.

Anyway, I think you're moving in the right direction, so I will mark this lesson as complete. Just be sure to continue practicing, and draw bigger.

aaphk

2015-06-24 05:04

Hi, here's my homework http://imgur.com/a/uSqEw#0 this lesson was a tough one

Uncomfortable

2015-06-24 20:15

Lots of improvement throughout the lesson. I especially love your cars - that '66 mustang looks awesome. Your forms are also generally coming through pretty well, but I see one huuuuuuuuuuge problem.

You need to work on your line control. You're too quick to jump into making the mark, before you put in the proper amount of thought and preparation. You don't ghost your lines enough, so when you do draw, the lines are very hit-and-miss and go awry more often than not. Because of this, your lines don't often come out straight, so your forms don't read as solid and firm.

This is really important when drawing hard surfaced objects like vehicles - those forms need to be solid and heavy.

I want you to go back and do a hell of a lot of the exercises from lesson 1, especially the super imposed lines and ghosting/planes ones. Then do a bunch of form intersections. You don't need to submit those to me, just make sure you do them regularly.

Once you feel more confident in your linework, I'd like to see three more pages of vehicles. Remember that mark making is a three-step process:

  1. Identify. Figure out what kind of line you need to make. Is it long, short, curved, straight? Where does it start and where does it end?

  2. Prepare. Find the most comfortable angle of approach - turn your paper if necessary. We can't all draw perfectly at every angle, so it's fine to manipulate your page to compensate. Then ghost over your line, over and over, thinking about the line you want to draw, and getting used to the motion required to draw it. The motion should feel smooth, persistent and unwavering.

  3. Finally, when you feel you've got it, without missing a beat as you ghost through the line, you touch your pen tip down on the page and make the mark. You make it once and then stop. A single execution.

It takes a long-ass time at first, but is far more effective than having wavy, unwieldy lines everywhere. Eventually it'll become more natural, a quicker matter of identifying, ghosting once or twice and nailing it. But for now, you need to put a lot more time into getting used to that.

aaphk

2015-06-27 02:56

ok http://imgur.com/a/oUOhw#2 I think I've got my lines a bit better

Uncomfortable

2015-06-27 15:12

Yup, they are considerably less sketchy. You're definitely moving in the right direction, so you can consider this lesson complete. Lots of room to grow though, so keep up with your practicing.

I did want to point out though that you need to avoid scribbling, like you did on the windshields of some of the cars. Scribbling makes your drawings look like shit, period. Use consistent, parallel lines that move from one end of the plane to the other. Be clean when you can.

I'm also noticing that you don't always seem to be subdividing your boxes to get your proportions down right. You might not even be doing any proportion studies, as far as I can tell. This is going to make your drawings more hit-and-miss.

For further reference on how to use the form intersection approach to construct things like this, as well as subdividing the boxes, take a look at this demo I did for someone else.

frankensteeen

2015-07-02 06:09

I had trouble with the proportion/perspective of things, especially in the beginning, since they were such big objects. They felt kind of tough to handle. Anyway, here's my homework. Thanks in advance!

Uncomfortable

2015-07-02 19:21

I see considerable improvement over the course of your work. Your later vehicles come out much more confidently and solidly. There are still issues, of course, but you're moving in the right direction.

The biggest problem that I noticed is that your lines are very sketchy. You're thinking right on the page, rather than deciding what kind of line you want before putting your pen to paper. You may want to back to the section in lesson 1 about the ghosting technique and practice it some more. It should be used on all freehand lines, as it forces you to think and plan before making any marks on the page.

Above all, avoid chicken-scratchy lines, and do your best to draw each line with only a single mark.

Another issue I noticed was that here and there, you lose track of where the center of the front plane lies. I saw this with the moped and the tank. On the moped, your front wheel ended up deviated pretty far from the middle of the box.

That said, by the time you reached that point, you didn't really have any sort of correction you could make without ruining the drawing, so I do believe you made the right decision to keep going as it was.

Anyway, keep up the great work.

IdleRa

2015-07-20 20:36

Here are mine: http://imgur.com/a/H5zcd

In the beginning, I had a little problem with the box. But then I reread the lesson and noted, that all the boxes and vehicles drawn are looked at from such a perspective, that neither top or bottom side can be seen. After I noted that, the exercise went pretty well from the hand.

[deleted]

2015-07-28 04:43

[deleted]

Uncomfortable

2015-07-28 19:56

You're going in the right direction. Of course a lot of it falls in the realm of just putting the time in and practicing, but for the most part you're grasping the concepts.

There are a few things that I would like to draw your attention to, however. For one, mind your horizon line. You'll notice in that example, you drew the top edge of the side plane as angling towards the top left. All of the other lines imply a horizon line that sits lower however. Since the vanishing point sits on the horizon line, it gives us a clue as to in which direction each line will converge.

Secondly, I noticed that when you draw cars, you tend to misalign the wheels slightly. I know that often times the front wheel is turned slightly in most reference photos, so that's fine, but in examples such as the top of page 3, the back wheels do not align to the overall box of the truck. You should probably go back and review the notes and video in the 250 cylinder challenge and practice those more.

Anyway, since you seem to generally be on track, I'll mark this lesson as complete. Well done.

jaimeiniesta

2015-08-11 18:49

This has been a fun lesson!

Here's my homework, I struggled specially on the last car, maybe it's because it's my car?

Uncomfortable

2015-08-12 01:33

I really like your moped and the hotrod. You really got in there and broke them down quite nicely.

Your boxy constructions are generally done fairly well, though you definitely seem to be struggling with cylinders. Based on your comfort with boxes, I think you'd do best to start off the cylinders as boxes as well, and then fit your cylinders inside of them (as I covered in the How to draw a cylinder video).

With the boat as well as your car, I think the biggest thing that led you astray was not starting off with a box as you did with some of the others.

The logic behind it is fairly straight forward - we start from simple forms, and fit slightly more complex forms into them. And then more complex forms into those, and so on, breaking them down until we achieve a fine degree of detail. Every level of detail hinges on the one before it, using it as a scaffolding. We use that scaffolding to make sure that our angles and proportions are sitting correctly in 3D space.

When we start off with a box, that box gives us a solid sense of our three dimensions. It gives us planes for each individual dimension, and summarizes where the vanishing point is. Within this box, we can now place any line and be fairly certain that it'll come close to sitting correctly in perspective.

The box can also be subdivided easily. Looking at your submarine, had you started it off with a box as well, you'd have been able to use the exact same method to subdivide it as you did with the 2D proportional study in the corner. That way you could have aligned the smaller details more precisely. Despite that, you still did a pretty good job with the submarine, but you certainly could have done better had you started with a box.

Now, you did use your box in some places, which is great. But you may have felt that the box was less useful, and ditched it later on because of that. The reason the box may not have been as useful as it could have been because you had a tendency to stray from it here and there.

Take a look at this.

So, while your hotrod looked pretty damn cool, some of your forms didn't line up to the original box. Specifically the front of the car. Its vertical line was slanted (all your verticals should be straight up/down), and its horizontal was angled the wrong way. In drawings like this, the box gives you the majority of your landmarks, but marking out the horizon line also helps establish a stronger understanding of the space. You always know that at the horizon, the lines flatten out. When a line is above the horizon, it angles a certain way, and it reverses when it dips below the horizon.

Always look to the box and the horizon for hints as to the angle of your line. If you look at my overdrawing, you'll notice that when I was drawing the top line of the front of your car, I compared it to a line slightly above it on the block-in box. They're not at exactly the same position, but they're pretty close, so I used it to estimate the line that I wanted to draw. Always look for these kinds of relationships. There usually is a line that relates fairly closely, and if there isn't, you may want to subdivide your box a little more.

Anyway, you're definitely moving in the right direction, but we just need to solidify your grasp of how to use these block-in boxes. So, I'd like to see four more pages of vehicles, but don't go into detail. Just stick to laying in those major forms, starting with an overall subdivided box. Also, be sure to start your cylinders off as boxes as well.

jaimeiniesta

2015-08-15 20:09

Thanks for the review, I see what you mean. Here are some extra drawings, what do you think?

Uncomfortable

2015-08-16 21:06

It's definitely coming together. I'm a bit confused by your excavator though - parts of the.. er.. shovel thing? Seem to be missing thickness - as though you forgot to draw some of the side faces of the form. Also, with your x-wing, watch out for the alignment of the wings. Personally I have a shit-tonne of problems with this myself. The wings on planes can be extremely difficult to align. Again, using an overall box can help of course - enclosing wings from end to end inside of their own box that intersects with that of the main body, and then defining the wings inside of it.

The cylinders of your wheels have improved substantially though - they read more as being solid than they did before.

jaimeiniesta

2015-08-16 21:35

Thanks for the review, I will revisit some of the vehicles to practice this more.

I have started with lesson 8, as I saw that 3-7 were not a hard requirement. Is it OK if I continue with lesson 8?

Uncomfortable

2015-08-16 21:36

Absolutely.

citrusred

2015-09-12 10:16

Homework for lesson 7.

Uncomfortable

2015-09-13 01:40

Some of these are definitely better than others, though I do see significant improvement over the course of the homework set. One thing I am concerned about however is that in general, it looks like you're not terribly comfortable with the construction of simple boxes (and to a lesser degree, cylinders), so when you're tasked with drawing them in the context of a more complex construction, you get a little overwhelmed.

I think you would benefit greatly from doing the 250 box challenge and the 250 cylinder challenge, as well as a few pages of form intersections from lesson 2.

Once you feel comfortable, try another 4 pages of vehicles.