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1:00 AM, Sunday October 15th 2023

Great job on the object studies!

For your 250 box challenge, only go over the outline once.

For visualizing the vanishing points I'd recommend not trying to ghost out to predetermined vanishing points. That tends to make the boxes converge very dramatically. Your boxes definitely have that hallmark. It can be a fine stylistic choice, as long as it is an actual choice and not an unconcious mistake.

Instead, I think it is better to get more of a general feel for how the rates of convergences change as you rotate boxes and change the angle of the lens.

I believe these are the standard positions Uncomfy takes in DaB as well.

3:21 PM, Friday October 27th 2023
edited at 3:28 PM, Oct 27th 2023

The video you posted was very interesting. Could you explain in greater detail what you mean by getting a "general feel for how the rates of convergences change as you rotate boxes" compared to ghosting to predetermined vanishing points? Does that entail measuring/copying boxes with different rates of convergence until you had it memorized or is it through a different process?

When I draw boxes, I primarily focus on trying to imagine where the vanishing points would be, and aim my lines toward those imaginary points (either through ghosting or strictly eyeballing), however this method takes awhile and feels increasingly less useful the further away the implied vanishing point. My initial assumption was that I just need to continue practicing to get faster and more precise. If possible, I would appreciate hearing more of your thoughts on the matter.

edited at 3:28 PM, Oct 27th 2023
4:41 PM, Friday October 27th 2023
edited at 5:18 PM, Oct 27th 2023

I meant two things. One is the second bullet point Comfy mentioned here with:

Though in the example below, both set of edges rotate by the same consistent amount, their vanishing points will actually move at different rates. How quickly they slide along the horizon depends on where in the frame they are - as the left vanishing point moves towards the center, it will slow down, moving less and less for every degree of the box's rotation. Conversely, as the right vanishing point moves further away from the center, and continues off past the right side of the compositional frame, it will slide more and more for every degree of the box's rotation.

The vanishing points move at different rates.

And basically the intuitions explained here:

Where the convergences toward vanishing points are perpetually in the middle of swapping which ones are going to go to infinity(parallel) and which one is going to be in the center. The state of each set of converging lines is a blend that you'll want to develop a feel for depending on if you want 1pp, 2pp, or 3pp and what camera lens you want to simulate.

edited at 5:18 PM, Oct 27th 2023
5:17 PM, Friday October 27th 2023
edited at 8:46 PM, Oct 27th 2023

Does that entail measuring/copying boxes with different rates of convergence until you had it memorized or is it through a different process?

A part of it is definitely mileage; developing the intuitions for what angle would establish a set of edges that are 90 degrees from another set, and then again for the 3rd set(basically, the Y method).

It might come entirely down to what you are asking. For some people that might be something they need to do before things click. Once it clicks though, it should be a matter of deducing "ok I want to be looking down the barrel of this gun I'm drawing" and having the ability to immediately know you'll want 1pp with dramatic foreshortening. But it doesn't even have to be in those explicit terms for yourself. It could just be gut feeling and memory from observation.

The rates of convergence really come down to how "close up" to the camera you want to object to feel or, at the same time, how "massive." It is a question of scale and proportion. The typical example is standing at the base of a Skyscraper and looking up to see how dramatic the foreshortening gets as the edges go toward the top. You could get the same effect by looking really closely at a lego.

Like with the gun drawing example, I find it helpful to go through a checklist of thoughts like "am I looking down on, or up at, this thing?" "Is it centered, and if so am I looking at a corner or centered directly on a face?" etc And you could understand the direct implications is has on the vp's. The more natural it becomes the less you have to think in terms of convergences and the more you can just do.

I just happened to see this video on camera lenses in my youtube recommendations. It was pretty cool. Worth a watch.

edited at 8:46 PM, Oct 27th 2023
10:30 AM, Sunday October 15th 2023

Thanks a lot!

Yeah my current goal is to go over the outline twice at max but I always have an unaccurate line and try to compensate for it by balancing out the line weight of the other lines lol. On one hand, it's good practice to go over the lines more than once but it changes (or even hides) the original angle of the line/box edge which is the main goal of this exercise, so I'm gonna leave the mistakes out in the open, and see how thick the lines are compared to going over it once.

You're correct there, I do prefer when the vanishing point is closer as I feel I do more mistakes with the less dramatic angled boxes, time to face that too then.

Thank you for the link, I'm still struggling with that quite a lot, I've only just started properly realizing that the further side/plane of a box is "wider" from our POV (as Uncomfy states in the tips for the challenge). I'm also starting to sense that the length ratio of 2 neighboring lines of the initial "Y" shape don't keep that same ratio for the 2 opposing lines that finish the shape of the plane, especially when the rate of foreshortening is high. I've watched a couple videos on box rotation and tried studying my rubic's cube to see how the length and angle of each line change so I'm hoping I'm slowly absorbing it haha.

Thanks again and hope you're doing well, both in art and life in general!

4:59 PM, Wednesday October 25th 2023

Heya so here's an update on my 250 Boxes, 110 Boxes behind me yay!

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How to Draw by Scott Robertson

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