This course is awesome, but I am not sure how it will help me in a long run

12:20 PM, Saturday January 25th 2025

So, I am currently in the last exercise of lesson 2 and still cannot get the sense of aligning to me.

Don't get me wrong, I clearly understand the purpose of the exercises and got benefits from it. But I have several concerns:

  1. The way its teaching is correct in a sense of "learning how to correctly learn from source". In another words, this course aims to teach us how to use it to construct from our observation, not for actual creative art expression.
  • How this course may help me learning to draw? Is it just set of tools for long-run future, that will enrich imagination and reshape itself (adapt) the way I see? Or it meant to break down old habits replacing with better ones?
  1. Actual creative expression (in my opinion) is a flow state of play with complete objects in imagination space. Real-time forming, logical ray- and overlap- tracing. The sense of scene is alive and captured in a moment separated by each object. In other words, each object has its own place and reason why its placed and bent while being standalone and partly interacting with other objects. For example: Apple on a windowsill. Every object has its own history, inluding placed apple. They can exist separately, if removed/picked up from a scene and this does not break initial mood from a windowsill or apple or whatever is there. So, artwork is a captured coincidence in a moment. Maybe you noticed, but its impossible pre-render the scene (draw from an idea) with simple objects. There simply no time for them, as artwork develops dynamically, not by "capturing"
  • Do anyone experienced this or its just my "excuse" to not draw from simple forms? Is it something I've believed in, but totally wrong (even including fact that's how I was drawing before trying drawabox)?
  1. I cannot see any benefit to my habitual workflow so far. Additionally, it broke my desire to draw from imagination. Not completely, but its way-way harder to start without any instructions or ideas nowadays
  • Is it normal? Is it something wrong with my perception of art? Or its just a matter of time and practice? If yes, how long approximately it will take to "blend"? Or it will be separate ways to draw, occasionally interwine with "old style"?

My background:

I never had anyone as an art teacher before (maybe in early childhood, don't remember). Started to draw in Jan 2023 digitally without references (only if I'm really stuck with understanding, happened 4 times during last year). Started drawabox course in Oct 2023. Did not submit any homework and not planning to.

Why I am sharing all of this:

  • I am genuinely confused with my art journey

  • I cannot understand why other people learning faster/better than me (outcomes divided by their art experience)

  • Paper and digital feel completely separate from one another

  • I am not sure if constructional way is good way for making art (at least for me)

  • I am not sure what to do and where to go.

Regardless of an answer, I'll complete everything till lesson 6. Than reconsider my view

Big thanks for reading and replying :p

2 users agree
6:42 PM, Saturday January 25th 2025

I think the source of your uncertainty comes from viewing drawing as a singular skill. It's not - it's an umbrella that covers many different skills, and while not all of them are necessarily relevant to every kind of drawing, there are many that tend to go hand in hand.

Drawabox is, as explained in Lesson 0, a course that focuses its efforts on the goal of developing one of these areas of skill: spatial reasoning. That is, the subconscious understanding of how the marks we draw on a flat page or canvas corresponds to the 3D information it is trying to represent - essentially an application of the concepts that underpin the rules of perspective, on an intuitive level. We use constructional drawing exercises to practice this (specifically in lessons 3-7), and prior to their introduction in the course, we build up other skills that help equip us to work towards this one primary goal more effectively. That is, the ability to produce confident, consistent linework (and doing so from the shoulder when it is necessary). This allows us to create more intentional, controlled linework, which in turn lends itself to the solidity of the forms we construct, which in turn helps us to develop our understanding of how those forms relate to one another in 3D space as we draw them.

While constructional drawing can be used as a technique for solving tricky spatial problems (and it's one that I still use myself for most of my drawing, albeit in a much more vague, rough, quick, and sketchy form than what we practice in this course), the stronger your spatial reasoning skills are, the less you will be dependent on using that technique all the time. This in turn helps us stay in the flow state where our focus is on what we're drawing, how we're composing the shot, how we're designing the elements within the piece, and so forth. In essence, we should not be concerning ourselves with how to draw - our instincts should take care of that. Our mind should be occupied with what it is we're drawing, and so yes - our methodology relies on a lot of practice and mileage during the assigned work so that the improved approaches, habits, etc. bleed into how you draw naturally without having to push for it consciously.

This also lends itself heavily to drawing from your imagination. Learning to think in spatial terms, understanding objects as they exist in 3D space as a collection of simpler structures combined together, allows us to record information about the things we see and study much more effectively in our brains, as 3D information is much less information dense than 2D images all packed with visual details (in other words, it helps us draw from our imagination better even in the absence of reference to work with). It also allows us, based on our understanding of those objects as a combination of simple forms, to make adjustments to reference images we may be using as tools when drawing our own things, causing us to be far less tethered to a specific reference and the angle/perspective it provides.

All said and done however, Drawabox focuses on this one main area of skill, and a few concepts (like linework) are addressed in its pursuit. There is a lot more to learn however, and what that is depends on your particular goals. This isn't just limited to fundamentals and concepts however - even tools, individual mediums, have to be learned. Many go into digital with the expectation that it's the same as traditional, just on a computer, but that isn't exactly correct. It leverages a lot of the same mechanisms (so what we learn here about linework, about engaging our whole arm from the shoulder, etc. applies) but there are other elements in between - how the input from whatever tablet you're using translates into a stroke in whatever software you're using, as each will have its own little hiccups and ways of solving problems that give way to a somewhat different experience.

Fortunately when it comes to tools, it's just a matter of giving yourself ample opportunity to get used to the new tool, before those underlying understandings of how to use your arm will have a greater influence on your ability to draw with it. But, as with all things, it's important to remember that we only learn and improve on the things we target specifically - and if we're not choosing what to target, or if we're not taking courses that are designed to target specific areas, then that does undermine its efficiency. Not always a bad thing, just a factor to understand as it plays a role in how we grow.

Now, given your choice to work in a vacuum (which we strongly recommend against at any chance we get), I can't necessarily confirm that the way you've been using the course material aligns with its intent - so all I've said above has to be taken in the context of what the course aims to achieve, and what its instructions are specifically geared towards.

0 users agree
8:48 PM, Tuesday January 28th 2025

It sounds like you have a lot of thoughts and feelings here. Uncomfortable has already addressed the purpose of the course and it's goals. I will share some personal experience. I should by sharing that I have not finished the course yet. I got to the middle of lesson 6 and then moved on to other areas of art learning. I plan on coming back however (I'm a bit of a completionist).

When I started drawabox, I actually felt that I was pretty good with spatial reasoning. I was wrong. I do have some ability there, but the lessons in Drawabox pushed them much higher. When I started learning, I was would try to draw things or people and I would do...ok. And I couldn't get past that. After Drawabox, I no longer see things as lines, even when working from a 2D image. The object now "feels" 3D and when I draw it, I can get a sense of the object in space. Thinking of things as simple forms allows me to visualize and draw that object from any angle. It also allows me to more accurately store that information in my brain when working from imagination. Before, I would have to draw an object many different times at different angles before I could store it in my mind. Now, I can just do a single drawing often and I feel comfortable drawing it from other angles. Very helpful when drawing from imagination. I'm not sure I understand what you meant when talking about work flow and a captured coincidence. Maybe you could help me understand that better.

Getting to your point about your personal art journey, I think it is a bad idea to compare your journey to others. There are too many differences between each persons journey to make a fair comparison. I am a much older beginner. Should I compare myself to an 18 year old with all the time in the world? No. Also, I agree with Uncomfortable about getting feedback. It's invaluable. I suggest finding a trusted person to share with. I have a friend who is a professional artist and teacher. When I need true thoughtful feedback, I go to him. He will be honest but not cruel. Without any feedback, you can continue to make the same mistakes over and over again and not know why. I also paid for feedback here at Drawabox and I was shocked at how good it was. It was lengthy and detailed and helped me a ton. Not an endorsement, just my experience.

Lastly, you mentioned your doubts about this process. That is totally fine. Drawabox is not for everyone. If you give it a go and it doesn't feel like it is working for you, that's fine. There are many other online sources. Maybe one of them will resonate with you better. I agree that when learning this program, I found drawing from imagination harder. I think that is normal. You are trying to incorporate a new skill into your current base. How long it takes is a more personal question so I don't have an answer for that. Give it some time. I would also suggest sharing some of your sketchbook stuff here too. It's a safe space.

10:48 AM, Wednesday January 29th 2025

What I've understood that outcome of this course will blend into my workflow overtime. Its nice to see that someone noticed that I am full of doubts, thinking and feelings. Yes, I question a lot and building my own theories to try out. That only means they are applicable to me, so if someone find here criticism or any negatives - its not, I am genuinely unsure.

Captured coincidence - do you ever tried to spend 1-2 hours non-stop drawing without any ideas? That's what I was doing most of 2023 art sessions. And the output far overcomes if I draw from ideas or references. As I don't have skills, the drawings are "stiff", but more "creative" and coincidence is unexpected object interactions. That's why I am confused how planning (construction) will help me as process involves a lot of play.

My solution is to move forward and see how it may help. Based on what Uncomfortable and you said, I made a conclusion that this course may enrich my spatial reasoning. Let's give it a shot!

I am comparing myself to reasonable (or I think so at least) people. For example, who started approx. when I and achieved better results than me in the same period of time. That's maybe unfair but I heavily question myself and searching how I can move more effectively. Still there is no answer besides increasing hours per day practicing drawing. Yeah, I am not trying to achive top of the world, and my goal is to draw what I want exclusively for myself at OK quality.

That's why I don't want feedback on my work from anyone, even if its course or high professionals. The main problem I faced when I was asking for a feedback is that people are different and does not matter if they are master at art or not - feedback will be from their perspective, not mine. And if I believed them, I will adapt their approach to work, what I am trying to avoid as much as I can.

The reason is - someone's detailed criticism actually feeling like not following myself. It is making me less want to progress in drawing. More I see someone in my work, less it gives me satisfaction of inner world reflection. Result - I will be less happy about my work and myself. It may sound like built wall or false belief. Some may say that art is a skill and don't heavily internalize it. And agree to them. But I want to keep my drawings (not only them, any creative work like writing) as close to me as possible in terms of reflection.

"I found drawing from imagination harder" - not for me. I found drawing without ideas or guidance much harder than it was before starting it. So, maybe I should finish my milestone and give a total break from it for half or even a year to reconnect new with old. I have no joy drawing from ideas. Initial ideas are always "meh", similar feeling to AI art. Doesn't matter how skilled artist, if he draws a cat face - it is a cat face and I don't consider it a creative work. It is an art, but it is just a good-looking cat face, nothing else to it at all. At the same time low-skilled comics are more appealing to me than detailed art of an object.

And yeah, I've deleted and thrown away my sketches (digital and paper) a little before starting Drawabox, So, I have very little of them now

Do you you have any questions for me to clarify something? Or maybe you have another perspective to my drawing approach? Or I just wrote some noob garbage and I should stop wasting people's time reading it, what do you think?

1:04 AM, Thursday January 30th 2025

I think what your goal is should be a guiding idea. You said you are really doing this for your own enjoyment and that you didn't really plan on sharing this with anyone. In that case, feedback may not be something you want. It may get in the way of your enjoyment. Drawabox is very specifically aimed at building one of the skills you may need to do representational art. You may be having a lot of fun just finding out things for yourself. I will ask a question about the people who you said were progressing faster than you. Are they getting feedback and criticism? It may be their secret sauce.

It does sound like you have a process when you create art that you enjoy. You may not be a person who likes to plan out the image. Maybe you like to having things sort of appear. That seems totally fine to me. I tend to have images fairly completely form in my head and all I am trying to do is get them on to the paper. I think there are as many different approaches to art as there are artists.

I personally came at this from a very different angle. I looked at some great illustrators of the past and said "That. That is what I want to do." Except I was starting at 0 and as I mentioned I am an older beginner. So my whole focus is improving my technique as fast as possible and the fastest way to do that is production and feed back. I don't want to spend time discovering techniques when there is someone out there that can show me how to do it. I will give you a concrete example. One of the drawing prompts here at Drawabox during one of the promptathons was draw a parade. For whatever reason I decided to draw it in 5 point perspective (not covered in Drawabox btw). This is it: https://imgur.com/a/Ig6aUPV I could maybe have figured out how to do this by myself...or...spend 10 minutes on youtube and watch someone show me how. I got to the picture I envisioned in my head a lot faster by having someone show me.

Good luck. I hope you get something out of Drawabox, it has been useful to me.

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