## In what perspective are the "Rotated Boxes"? Are the boxes in the "250 Box Challenge" unrotated?

##### 8:01 PM, Sunday August 2nd 2020

Hi,

I'm in the middle of the 250 box challenge, which means I passed the Rotated Boxes Homework already. After drawing a handful of the 250 boxes with the Y-method I looked back to the Rotated Boxes and saw there are boxes which can't be constructed from Y-method. Which made me think more about perspective.

Here are my questions:

1) I understand that a Scene can have multiple Vanishing Points (a lot more than three). What I didn't found out from lesseon 1 material: Is perspective applied to a Scene or two a box? (does all boxes of a scene have same perspective, because perspective is defined for a scene)

2) In the Rotated Box Homework you can see 25 Boxes. Is the box in the center in One-Point-Perspective, the boxes on the axis in Two-Point Perspective and the other boxes in Three-Point perspective? Or is the whole Scene in One-Point-Perspective and rotated boxes are a result of the moving one VP, which means 25 boxes in One-Point-Perspective, but 25 different VPs? Or is it somehow different?

3) Are all boxes I should draw in the 250 box challenge unrotated?

Thanks for supporting me understanding perspective.

Best,

Neuromancer

2 users agree
##### 11:02 PM, Sunday August 2nd 2020
1. Scenes can have any number of vanishing points. That means you can have boxes in the same scene that don't share the same vanishing points as other boxes because they've been rotated or otherwise skewed. This is something Comfy tries to establish with the rotated boxes and it goes against what a lot of traditional perspective courses will tell you because a lot of people don't draw with that kind of rigid plotted out perspective.

2. The rotated boxes aren't actually cubes (https://drawabox.com/lesson/1/16/step4). As for the perspectives each box is in, it doesn't really matter a whole lot, since as noted above, you can have any number of vanishing points in a scene with boxes rotated on any of their axes - what's important is the rate of foreshortening when doing so, which is something you'll explore more in lesson 2's form intersections.

3. The boxes in the 250 box challenge should be all sorts of orientations, rates of foreshortening, and size. Context is what makes a box rotated or not - if you drew a random box on a page and extended its lines back to the horizon, that box would not be considered rotated. If you only drew one of the extremity boxes in the rotated boxes exercise and nothing else, it wouldn't really be a rotated box till you added the other boxes. So the answer is you don't have to rotate boxes in relation to each other in the 250 box challenge unless you feel you need to add another layer of difficulty to keep things interesting once you've nailed down your convergences.

I guess the take away is don't overthink it too much. Drawabox is here to teach you an intuitive grasp of perspective that doesn't adhere to the usual strict rules of plotting everything back and establishing X number of vanishing points in a scene, because not everything will adhere to those perfect rules.

##### 8:22 PM, Tuesday August 4th 2020

Thanks for your detailed feedback it was helpful and contributed to my new understanding (posted to first answer in thread). If you want to correct or add something feel free to do so. I see my understanding as a working hypothesis, which is good enough for now and will be improved with every new input.

Best,

Neuromancer

1 users agree
##### 3:47 AM, Monday August 3rd 2020

In this instance, for the 250 Challenge, each box will have their own set of vanishing points. These different vanishing points will be making up the scene. You determine these points by how you construct your first 2 planes. They are not rotated per se, as they all don't share a VP(s), but it is good to make the boxes in a wide variety of Y variations. From what I understand, it is at your discretion how many VPs you use. However, it seems that using 3 point perspective more often is what you should strive for, as it is more difficult to keep track of.

I hope this helps you, good luck!

Best,

Chuddy

##### 8:18 PM, Tuesday August 4th 2020

Thanks all for your support. Based on your input and rechecking the lesson material my new understanding is...

These 1, 2 and 3 point perspective systems do not exist. (https://drawabox.com/lesson/1/6/123pointperspective)

So I don't care (at least for now) in what perspective the whole Scene is, in the end it's 3D and every object has 3 PVs. VPs could be in infinity, but they are always there. If I want to move or rotate a box in space I can describe that by doing relative manipulation of some VPs.

The "rotated boxes", which are tapered boxes no classic box with 90 degrees like in the 250 box challenge, have all 3 VPs. For the first box one VP is in the center the other two are in infinity. Rotation can be described as moving VPs.

Boxes in 250 box challenge are not rotated as long as I see them as independent boxes. A single box can never be rotated. The viewer looks at the single box from different angel. I can control with 3rd vanishing point the viewing angle of my eye/camera. In contradiction Rotation is always relative from one object to another. So if I want to see the boxes, which I draw on the same page in relation to each other they are rotated, moved, scaled or whatever relative to each other.

Thanks all for your contribution to my new understanding. If you want to correct or add something feel free to do so. I see my understanding as a working hypothesis, which is good enough for now and will be improved with every new input.

Best,

Neuromancer

##### 11:08 PM, Thursday August 6th 2020

Not every object has 3 VP. If your object has 12 faces, it has more than 3 VP. (every set of parallel lines gives you a VP).

For the 250 boxes we mostly start with a corner so it`s 3 VP.

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##### 4:08 PM, Monday August 3rd 2020

If you go on gumroad and get Krenz Cushart's how to control angle and proportion in perspective and his how to rotate in perspective lessons (itll cost you 20 dollars) he explains clearly what is happening. I will try to explain it though. All VPs are a distance relationship between the viewer object and horizon line. Basically, imagine your VPs on the horizon line as your rotation of object, then imagine your 3rd vanishing point as the viewing angle of a camera (your eye). all objects in the scene do not work off of the same perspective vanishing points, but they are all related via the ground surface level and the cone of vision. In summary, when you rotate an object left and right, you are turning two lines that meet at a 90 degree corner and therefore moving the points they meet the horizon line (NEW INTERSECTIONS). If you are looking at a 45 degree corner of a box, in plan view it would look like a triangle. If you rotate this through to 45 degrees one of the vanishing points becomes parallel to the horizon line, you are now in one point perspective. continue this rotation and you are back in two point perspective. Think of your 3rd vanishing point as the angle you are witnessing this happen at.

##### 8:22 PM, Tuesday August 4th 2020

Thanks for your detailed feedback it was helpful and contributed to my new understanding (posted to first answer in thread). If you want to correct or add something feel free to do so. I see my understanding as a working hypothesis, which is good enough for now and will be improved with every new input.

Best,

Neuromancer

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