Working in a vaccuum: is it really that bad?

9:55 PM, Saturday January 25th 2025

Specially when starting out: I don't see the point in asking for feedback when problems are evident on first glance.

This questions also comes due the fact that people asking for feedback in the early stages barely get a response, if any, compared to those of intermediary skill an upwards.

3 users agree
7:46 AM, Sunday January 26th 2025
  1. Working in a vacuum will inevitably lower the ceiling for how much you can improve, while simultaneously extending the amount of time/energy required to reach that ceiling. Get some feedback - you'll thank yourself later. Not only will you learn quicker, but you'll learn much more than you would have otherwise.

  2. If your piece has problems that are clearly evident to you, don't feel pressured to ask for feedback on that piece! It's the pieces that you think turned out reasonably well that you should be seeking feedback on, and especially pieces that you think look wrong but can't figure out why. Other people can help point things out that you wouldn't have noticed, which is how we improve on areas we didn't even know we needed to improve on. If you already know specifically what you did wrong, then just keep that in mind going forward. If you can't precisely articulate what those problems are, that's what feedback is for - don't just say "there's mistakes", enumerate through them - "These parallel lines diverge which made this face inconsistent with the rest of the object, which led me to stretch my form in an unrealistic way" or something to that effect.

With regards to your second statement about how "early stage" feedback is more scarce, I honestly don't know if I agree with that assertion. Personally, as a free-tier user, I see waaay more feedback being given to lessons 1,2, and the 250 box challenge than, say, lessons 5-7. Now, the structure of the critique-exchange process certainly plays a role in that effect, but I think broadly speaking, there are statistically more people able to give meaningful criticisms to beginners than to experts (or even "intermediate" artists).

But I'll play ball in your court - let's assume that your assertion is true. Obviously there's a lot of different factors here, but something I see a lot from "early stage" artists is a tendency to ask for broad advice, rather than critiques in a specific area. If your piece has mistakes on several different levels (perspective issues, inconsistent form intersections, incorrect shadow placement, etc.) then people are going to think to themselves "there's too much 'wrong' here it would take me 30 minutes to write everything I want to say, I'll just keep scrolling." People don't tend to take the time to give thoughful, personalized critiques to strangers on the internet. You're way more likely to get one-line responses with no real substance to them - things like "Drawing looks flat, make it 3D" or "Colors are off, shadows don't make sense." I think more "intermediate" artists know enough to ask for focused critiques on a single aspect of their work, something like "This pose looks stiff, what can I do to make it feel more dynamic?" This way, even if your piece has mistakes on multiple different levels, the people critiquing your work will know "Okay I can ignore all the other issues, they just want feedback on their gesture - I can do that" and you're way more likely to get a response that way.

Hopefully something I said was somewhat helpful! I don't think you should feel pressured to ask for feedback on everything that you make, but you shouldn't feel afraid to ask for feedback when you're uncertain either. Good luck on your journey! Happy drawing :)

0 users agree
1:30 PM, Sunday January 26th 2025

I do not remember which exact video in Dr.K's lectures I found that for early artists (and any interest basically) where do not have experience and just starting - is to let yourself play with it and do not engage in courses/learning straight away for approximately 6-12 months (~150-200h in my practice with art). Also it is hardly recommended to avoid critiques and feedback during this period. The main reason usually this: we get exited - we try, find that our vision is hard, too much mistakes and the way loses its interest with conclusion "nah, its not my". And as people mentioned above - the critiques will be generally useless for beginners, very generic. And in early stages for sure you will not make most of it right. But it does not have to be right. You can toss a pencils and have fun building well with them, trace a cat from your phone screen, whatever. First are curiosity and manifesting the somewhat stable love with your interest, then is to go for "how to do this" (short youtube tutorials are best) and only after this - engage into critique and sign up yourself for courses. More you confident in your skill and yourself - less you take feedback personally and it is more helpful as addresses exact issues.

So, is working in a vacuum is good or bad?

It is good for most of the time, but it will be best if you go outside and ask for a feedback when you are stuck or cannot see errors. Time when you are ready for external feedback from strangers (not courses) is ~2 years of work (or 500-1000 hours). Yes, this is approximately and may vary for different people, but the point is to explore your interest alone first. That's why parent's positive support and attitude are very important in cultivating interest in a child. And it can be easily ruined. Same to adult life, but instead of parents there is society.

The problem here - what you are achieving with creative medium. If you want to show your work to a society, you will adapt their views into yours, internalize them and blend with existing dataset to match their perspective. If you do for society (work, youtube, patreon, discord server, monetization) - you will follow society expectations in n%. That's how we adapt to outside world, nothing wrong with it!

Also, not jumping straight away for courses and tutorials is a good idea to develop your own sense of an action. Or in other words - your style of work. If we jump to how others will do, you will learn how to mimic their work. Do you really want to be like others? This question is for beginner and most probably answer is no.

  • There is an argument that "learn now, you will find style later, dont worry much about it". Yes, and no. You will develop your style overtime its 100%. But the more you learn from others, harder it will be to find yourself. I am not saying "exceptionality", what I mean is there is no right or wrong approach to creativity. Only "right" way to create - is it what aligning to YOUR way of creative expression or not.

But... why?

Yes, this advice is not for everyone, sure.

Ok, but why this actually works?

Heh, the dopamine system. How it works is very easy - it is sense of who you are and it develops overtime with what we engage the most. Examples: "I am a gamer", "I am an artist", "I am a musician", "I am a gigachad", "I love X", "I see myself as Y". And if you know - anything that keeps the joy and fun from activity will produce less dopamine and as a result - less sense of "I" in a direction you want. It can be (but not limited to) trauma responses, it can be what you learned as a child, the comparison and critiques from others. Anything that takes away your joy from a work, even if its beneficial - can slow down and even construct the opposite. Why it's important to know - as we leave in an active stimulation environment, the basic hobbies like writing, art and playing musical instruments produce way less reinforcement than screens and very easy to give up.

I made this approach and built a strong fundament for growth. Yes, it WORKS. Now I do not feel complete if don't draw anything in a given day. Crazy thing :p

To summarize, working in a vacuum is good if its just your hobby, you are doing this for yourself only or in early stages of discovery. Occasional "go out to people" can be highly beneficial for collecting areas of potential improvement. But if your goal to share with people and even make money - it is actually bad for your goal and sense of self on a long run. I don't know you, but if you are just starting exploring art - bookmark this website and come back in 6-12 months. Otherwise, enjoy this course and submit your work as instructed!

All the best!

0 users agree
9:45 AM, Sunday January 26th 2025

There's literally no harm in posting your homework for community feedback. The worst thing that can happen is that no one responds but if you work in a vacuum there's zero chance to get any feedback anyway.

Posting your homework doesn't take much time but can be invaluable in terms of learning. You cannot learn without making mistakes and you yourself can't notice all of your mistakes (neither do people who provide feedback but the more people look at your homework, the higher the chance of spotting a mistake). A thing that may seem okay or even irrelevant to you can be the one that limits your learning significantly. Or maybe a completely opposite thing can happen: you may stress over something that isn't that important.

Again, you don't lose anything by simply posting your homework for community feedback. If there's no feedback after, let's say, two weeks of waiting then you can simply move on with the course. You can work on your 50% rule while you wait for a response.

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