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9:12 PM, Tuesday April 16th 2024

Thanks for the feedback, as always it is genuinely enlightening. I feel like an asshole complaining after all this, but I just want clear 2 things up. Merely explain my stance, since I doubt that I am the only person using this line of logic and I believe knowing it, might be useful to you.

This challenge was the only time I eased up on focusing on every singe line in equally high measure, because I was under the impression that the specific care put into the ghosting method and using the whole arm in this course was done for the benefit of helping Me, with improving the confidence in longer lines and deliberate thoughtfulness while drawing (among other things).

"(...) having clean linework helps to ensure that I can see the student's intent, and more accurately interpret what they were thinking about, and what they may not have been thinking about, when making their design decisions."

I'm sorry, but I struggle to see how this means that I must follow all of the guidelines regarding the line making techniques in this course. Ballpoint pen can make very clean lines by carefully layering and connecting short strokes made with wrist or maybe even just the fingers (to be clear, I did not do that here). I agree that clean linework in this challenge was key, but that is all the more reason to not be forced to use the whole arm, even for smaller marks, or making 2 passes at each ellipse for example. These are extra hoops I'd have to jump through, in order to get the lines as clean as possible and convey the design as clearly as possible (especially hard when adding thickness and small details), which seems to be the main goal here.

Another matter is my moan about the amount of work required here.

The only reason anyone would do this exercise is to help train their creative muscles and design thinking. From the perspective of the student, feedback at the end, is there to help point out where they can improve and practice better in the future. The problem with the amount is that doing 50 designs before receiving any feedback, takes a lot of time and effort. It's a little unreasonable to expect students to practice for tenths of hours, over a span of many weeks, with a concern that they are making the same mistakes 50 times over and developing bad habits, just to learn that at the end. But that is exactly what's expected here. It might not make it a bad challenge - and I'm aware that nobody made me take it on, so these complaints might seem a little silly - but I feel it would be improved by giving a more reasonable amount of work to students and encouraging them to continue to practice after a shorter amount of time spend on chests.

Right now, thanks to the feedback, I feel more confident that I see how I can improve my future designs, but as I joked earlier, I don't want to design any more treasure chests for a while, so this confidence is nigh (at least for chests specifically). This was not a problem for me with other challenges, since things like boxes or cylinders are easier to self critique to some degree, with each example produced. But here, I felt a little blind.

I don't like that idea about earning feedback. Positive feedback should feel earned to the student, not just any feedback at all. I empathize with your perspective as a business owner, but I really don't understand how having less examples to pick from, would make giving feedback harder. You'd have to look at less pictures, so if anything, it would take less time, no?

Regardless, thanks again, not just for the feedback above, but the course as a whole. I truly cannot express how much I owe it, and therefor You.

11:29 PM, Tuesday April 16th 2024

To put it simply, not all cases of a given issue are really suitable for explaining it. It varies from topic to topic and issue to issue, but having a really on point example can help me illustrate to the student what the issue is, as well as why and how they might avoid it. As long as the work is organized and clear, the quantity of pages to go through isn't really an issue - although in cases where they are haphazard, half-complete, and otherwise disorganized, that can definitely make things harder.

Doesn't happen often, and when it does, it's memorable - I remember on December 24th 2021, I received a Lesson 5 submission made up of half drawings across some 50 pages... That one was a challenge, and took a solid 3 hours just to explain why it required a full redo.

In most cases however, effective critique benefits from examples that are clear. It's very easy to have examples of an issue that aren't quite as obvious or neatly packaged, and that simply makes the task more difficult.

I completely understand where you're coming from, and how a student may be inclined to view the situation, but I still feel like you're missing a key point here, and it's a difficult one to make without discussing money, and who gets paid what, which is admittedly uncouth.

In your reply you acknowledge everything drawabox has done for you, and I appreciate that - but at the same time you express disdain at the idea of "earning" your feedback. That would make perfect sense in the context of a customer paying for a service - a customer should only be expected to pay for the service they receive, a simple exchange.

But that isn't the case here. Our course is designed such that people who have limited budgets can still receive the same feedback as those with more money to spend - those who can afford to allow credits to expire do so, and those who can't simply spend every credit they receive. It does not cover the full cost of the feedback they receive (by the end of Lesson 5 the total cost of feedback as paid to the TAs is $70 USD, and due to overhead fees we lose about 15% of what the students pay), but that is the nature of the system we've set up and we balance it out in other ways. Our priority is that students, despite financial difficulties, are more able to receive that reliable feedback.

While the large quantity of work associated with our course in general definitely helps make this possible (as it staggers out the homework submissions) just as the strict requirements we impose do, most of the workload throughout this course is still in line with what is beneficial for the student.

The chest challenge is quite different from everything else this course offers, however. It is entirely based on looking specifically at the very unique designs the student produces, and so it is extremely time consuming to critique. Finding those best examples, explaining the concepts in the context of the work, doing draw overs and so forth.

After the TAs get paid, and the processing/overhead fees are taken into consideration, if a student has spent every single credit they received, that leaves about $10 USD left over to cover the time I spend on critiquing everything after Lesson 5. The cylinder challenge, lesson 6, the wheel challenge, lesson 7, the texture challenge, and the chest challenge. Ten dollars to cover what averages to 3 hours of work, the last hour of which is occupied by the chest challenge.

Limiting to just the mandatory parts of the course (1.5hrs worth) we're looking at $6.67/hour. Adding the texture challenge brings us to $5/hour, and adding the treasure chest challenge brings us down to $3.33/hour. Minimum wage where we're based is $11/hour.

Now I absolutely could increase the credit price of the chest challenge, but that doesn't really align with our core principles as a business, which is to reduce the financial barriers necessary to receive reliable feedback, and eliminate them entirely for our learning resources.

The other option is to ensure that those who do decide to pursue the chest challenge are few and far between, which given the fact that it is optional and not actually a part of our core course material, nor directly focused on any of the topics we present as being among the course's goals, seems pretty reasonable to me. And of course, we do that by asking for a ton of work.

Cut the work in half, and the rate of submission increases - and at that point, we'd probably stop offering feedback on it altogether. I'm sure that would be fine for those mainly interested in being able to say they "completed" every part of the course, as the additional assignment would be taken off the table entirely, but it would be a loss for those who genuinely wanted to learn about design.

Besides - I haven't run into any issues with the other students who submitted the challenge. Yeah, it was a lot of work, but they completed it as assigned and I provided their feedback without issue or complaint.

All I ask is that you do the work in the way it was assigned, and that when I am working for below minimum wage for your benefit, upholding my end of the bargain I outlined in Lesson 0, you uphold yours and take all the time that is required of you, regardless of whether you personally feel it is beneficial. I suppose if you really took issue with the assignment but still felt compelled to do the exercise, you could have asked if your modification was acceptable, instead of moving ahead with it of your own volition.

Circling back, you may notice that the examples I chose when providing my feedback were from the first half of the challenge where you were more inclined to prioritize what was asked of you.

I hope my explanation was clear, though if you have any questions on why we operate in this fashion, feel free to ask.

3:22 PM, Friday April 19th 2024

This was a way more detailed breakdown than I expected and I must admit, it did explain a couple of things for me. A system where the most regular and trusted users of the service are bringing the biggest loss, is somewhat counterintuitive, but I can see good reasons for it working that way.

I've canceled my patreon subscription when I was done with all the materials, but after reading this, I decided to support you a little bit and resubscribed on the 'Backbone of Society' tier. This will probably be just for a month or two, but I hope it helps. For reference, in my country minimal wage, actually is just over $3.33/hour :P.

And please don't take this in bad faith. I'm not doing this to appease you or because I felt like you were fishing for it. I genuinely believe this program deserves a lot more and I am currently in position give some, so I'll gladly do. Take this as yet another honest Thank You.

5:06 PM, Saturday April 20th 2024

I appreciate the sentiment. We will put your additional contribution to good use in helping to provide other students with feedback on their work.

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