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4:37 PM, Wednesday December 6th 2023
edited at 4:47 PM, Dec 6th 2023

Hello Koolestani,

I'm happy to hear that the feedback helped you to grasp some of the concepts involved with these constructional exercises, and will do my best to address your remaining concerns and questions.

I think, I'm still not quite where the lesson wants me to be.

The alterations you made to your own constructions are showing a pretty good understanding of the points discussed in my feedback, and we'll continue to practice these techniques into the next lesson using animals as our subject matter, so you'll get plenty of opportunity to apply them as you move forward.

I mostly just ended up drawing ellipses to indicate the contact of the additional mass that lays over the basic sausage form for all the legs. My brain just sees elliptical contours as the boundary of the connective surface between the sausage form and the form added above it. Is that correct?"

The design of how the additional mass makes contact with the underlying structures will vary on a case by case basis. I try and push students to think about their masses first as they exist on their own, in the void, as a ball of soft meat. Here they have no complexity, being made up only of outward curves with no corners to their silhouettes. Once they press up against an existing structure however, they start developing complexity, with inward curves to wrap around those existing forms as shown here. This essentially means that we need to always make sure that we understand the nature of both the additional mass, and all the forms it's pressing up against. This diagram shows a more exaggerated version of what you're describing with the masses on your legs, and how to wrap the additional mass around the sausage form to give it a firmer grip. This is something Uncomfortable goes over a bit more in the next lesson.

Also I was surprised to see how little space there was on the page to add little clumps of mass over the legs of some of these creatures even when I dedicated the whole page to just one creature. Is that normal?

Yes, that is pretty normal. In general, animal legs are often a bit thicker than insect legs, so this should be less of a problem as you move forward with the next lesson.

I can see that this is basically an exercise of geometric intersections.

So when the appendage in the claw of the scorpion intersects with the base form of the claw which is a sphere the boundary of the intersection follows the curvature of the sphere (wraps around its surface).

Yes, that is the right way to think about it.

On the page with two beetles drawn on it, the beetle on the top, label A, here I visualize the form with the antennae attaches to its head which is a sphere and the result is a boundary that looks like its wearing a VR headseat. This is what seemed right to me. What do you think about it?

It is better for sure. You've changed the addition to the head from a partial shape to a complete form. The more complicated a form is, the more difficult is is for the viewer to understand how the form is supposed to exist in 3D space. So this worked better on your june bug, where the addition was simpler. For the complex extension to the head of the beetle at the top of this page I think it would work better to break it into more steps, adding several forms, while keeping each individual form a bit simpler and more limited in scope. You'll see an example of this in the ant head demo where uncomfortable attaches a simple boxy form to the front of the head, then the basic form of each mandible, and finally each individual spike, one at a time. Everything is built up, starting from the big, simpler masses, gradually getting smaller and more complex.

Likewise, in the ten lined june bug, label A, I see the intersection of the elongated form with its spherical head like that of a ducks bill with it face.

Yes, this works.

In the crab with tons of annotation, I think I have got the right idea of how the lumps of mass connect to the spherical base form of its claws, I am still not sure about what I could have done better with the connective lump of mass hatched and labelled B, I don't see any hidden line that I could have added to improve upon the illusion of it wrapping around in 3D space and connecting the spheres on either sides of it.

Use the sausage method for your limbs and you won't have this problem. The definition of a sausage form introduced here is two spheres of equal size connected by a bendy tube of consistent width, which I think is what you were trying to go for where you've marked E.

Label C and D, I think they now look like lumps that wrap around their base form of an ellipsoid.

Yeah, that's a tricky one. If we used the idea you brought up earlier with the scorpion claws, treating them like geometric intersections, we could use boxier forms for the shell of the crab, and then think about how those boxy forms would intersect with the underlying ball-like form of the body. You're approach here isn't wrong, but that's how I'd think about tackling the shell so it feels structural, rather than, as you said, lumpy.

On the green metallic beetle, labels A, B and E, again I could only imagine the boundaries of the intersection of forms added over the base form as elliptical contours. With E being just a tiny sliver / slice of a larger sphere.

I'm not sure these specific alterations were necessary, as you had already drawn complete forms for these pieces, wrapping them around your underlying ball forms. Here is what I mean for A and B.

C and D also seemed to sit on the base form in a way that would cause the geometric intersection to look like an ellipse.

These look good.

I think that should answer your various questions, let me know if I missed any.

Your comments and alterations show that you're on the right track. Most of your alterations don't seem to be following the specifics of the sausage method of leg construction. I appreciate that this isn't something you can really fix after you've already drawn the constructions. Just be sure to start with simple sausage forms, then a contour line for the intersection at each joint, then your additional forms. The method is quite specific, here is a quick little example in the context of one of your beetle legs.

Keep up the good work.

edited at 4:47 PM, Dec 6th 2023
12:11 PM, Saturday December 9th 2023
edited at 12:12 PM, Dec 9th 2023

I also drew the parts of legs that hid behind the body of these creatures. Any tip about the same? I think since the hidden parts are basically conjecture on my part, I just extrapolated what I thought must be going on with their design judging from the parts that were visible.

I'm not sure these specific alterations were necessary, as you had already drawn complete forms for these pieces, wrapping them around your underlying ball forms.

Isn't A and B of the green metallic beetle same as the C and D of the crab with a lot of annotation. Here is what I mean.

I corrected it in the green metallic beetle because earlier they were also just shapes extending off of existing base form.

Something that happens much more frequently in your work is extending off existing forms with partial shapes, not quite providing enough information for us to understand how they actually connect to the existing structure in 3D space.

Thanks again.

edited at 12:12 PM, Dec 9th 2023
9:24 PM, Sunday December 10th 2023

Hello Koolestani,

I also drew the parts of legs that hid behind the body of these creatures. Any tip about the same?

Uncomfortable discusses this in the lesson intro video from around the 21 minute mark.

I corrected it in the green metallic beetle because earlier they were also just shapes extending off of existing base form.

You are quite right, I made a mistake here, and for that I apologise. I've conferred with Uncomfortable, he recommends applying things a little differently.

"In terms of what we see here the more "complete" form of the carapace that Dio had added here isn't correct. It basically renders the original mass moot, because it replaces it in its entirety. We don't want to completely replace things if we can help it (really the only situation where we do is when merging the rib cage and pelvis into a sausage in lesson 5, where the rib cage/pelvis serve to establish the ends of the final form, so they still serve a purpose. In this case, starting with a sphere doesn't help us in that kind of manner, it just gets completely replaced.

Instead, when we build up every individual bit of complexity with their own additional masses, considering how they attach to the existing structure rather than replacing it (as Uncomfortable shows here), we're given a lot more subtlety and nuance in terms of how it impacts the object's silhouette, making the whole thing more solid. This also means that we can't just "smooth" things out to achieve a perfect result - every step we take to solve a problem (to get to our desired result) will never take is directly there - it takes us in that direction, but in so doing gives us more (smaller) problems to solve along the way.

This largely comes back to the fact that the drawings we do throughout this course are exercises. None of this is a "how to get from A to B to C to your completed pretty drawing". These are exercises that force our brains into solving 3D spatial puzzles, to navigating the relationships between the forms at play, and to rewire our understanding of how they relate to one another in that 3D space despite being drawn on a flat page."

As I stated before, this is something you will continue to practice into lesson 5, as designed by the lesson structure. As such, its not really permitted for a student to decide to submit revisions if they were not assigned.

2:14 PM, Wednesday December 13th 2023

I take it that the three large paragraphs enclosed within the double quotes is the feedback from Uncomfortable.

His revisions do look better but they deviate from the reference a bit. The silhoutte of the green metallic beetle is still quite true to the reference but the crab's silhoutte is quite altered by those divets.

As such, its not really permitted for a student to decide to submit revisions if they were not assigned.

I was just trying to eliminate any doubts I had left because I got different feedback for the same error, so I was a bit confused by that and felt I should clear it up.

As was suggested in the earlier comments.

If anything said to you here, or previously, is unclear or confusing you are welcome to ask questions.

There are many potential reasons this could be happening, but at the end of the day, it is your responsibility to ensure that you can implement the feedback you've received, or that if you do not understand something, that you ask questions (either here, or over on our Discord chat server, where fellow students are often happy to help).

Thanks.

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