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3:17 AM, Monday February 3rd 2020
edited at 4:11 PM, Feb 3rd 2020

So then in general is it possible to make a stroke that starts with the elbow and then switches to the shoulder in a fluid, flowing motion, or is it universally always better to try and use only the shoulder? It feels like it'd be a useful skill to have, especially if you want to hit lines at weird angles on a surface that you can't rotate. Also, if you want to draw a large cirlce in front of you, it feels like you can either have your arm hanging at your side and make the motion by using both elbow movement and shoulder movement, or else you have to have your arm out in front of you and bend your elbow at a 90 degree angle, which lets you draw the circle without moving your elbow too much but it feels really exaggerated.

I think I just want to be able to draw without worrying about whether I'm using too much elbow movement or whatever. It seems like it'd be stressful to have to keep track of something like that constantly.

edited at 4:11 PM, Feb 3rd 2020
3:24 AM, Monday February 3rd 2020

Is it possible? I'm sure it is. Is it worth actually putting the work into developing that skill when you could instead be moving onto concepts that are vastly more important when it comes to drawing? Probably not.

A lot of students get caught up on that with the topic of being able to draw from any angle rather than rotating the page to find an angle of approach that feels comfortable and using that most of the time. The comparison is basically between a student who was able to do that and move on to learn other concepts and develop their overall drawing skills, and a student who got really good at drawing lines in any direction. The latter's a novelty.

Once you've got the wider array of skills down, then you can absolutely come back and hone the areas that will actually benefit you - but until then, it's not a good use of your time.

4:30 PM, Monday February 3rd 2020

Sorry, I didn't notice the "view more comments in this thread" button, so I had edited my comment thinking that you hadn't replied yet, but I'll ask my other question here too.

If you're drawing a large cirlce, counterclockwise, in front of the center of your body, and your arm is hanging plumb at your side, don't you have to use both elbow and shoulder movement so your arm can maneuver around your torso? Aren't there times during a motion like this where your elbow is almost touching the side of your body and you're not physically able to move your arm any further using your shoulder, necessitating elbow movement? I feel like this applies to almost all other curved lines too, and that during these, even if the motion starts with the shoulder, you have to add in some elbow movement in order to move your arm around your torso.

The only way I can imagine to make the circle or curved line without using a lot of elbow movement is to either draw the whole thing far to the right of your body, away from your torso, or to hold your arm out in front of you with your elbow bent at a 90 degree angle, which sounds awkward. Is this how you want us to do this?

6:02 PM, Monday February 3rd 2020

Generally speaking the scale that DaB takes place on (printer paper) isn't going to require those sorts of awkward full body motions.

I've also found that it's easier to start with shoulder and, if I somehow run out of shoulder motion, THEN engaging my elbow, rather than trying to go from elbow (finer motion) to shoulder (broader motion).

11:06 PM, Monday February 3rd 2020

in front of the center of your body, and your arm is hanging plumb at your side

That stands out to me as being an unnecessary restriction. If I were drawing a large circle, counter-clockwise, in front of me, I definitely wouldn't have my arm straight down at my side. Unlike the elbow, the shoulder joint is a ball joint, and can be thrust a little forward. Doing so is awkward and isn't something you have to do that often, but it does allow you to draw a large circle using a consistent motion (recipe-wise, as discussed previously), primarily driven from the shoulder.

At this point I do feel like we're going around in circles a little bit.

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