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I really wish I hadn't clicked that link. Ladybugs remind me of bedbugs, and it only gives me a reason to hate them aside from my traumatic experience developing video games for toddlers that taught them how to count using ladybugs. That and their smell....

Oh man, I am so sorry. I am just very glad I can practice on animals now instead of bugs. This has been a traumatic lesson to work through. I am also not going to ask you how you know how they smell, I don't think any good would come out of it. ????

We "draw through" forms like the legs, because they are visible, and therefore we need to fully understand how they exist in space in relation to the other visible forms.

This answers my whole confusion, thank you. ????

Thanks again for the feedback! I definitely dropped the ball on proportions. I was way too focused on construction on these drawings, but I'll make sure to take more time for observation in the next lesson.

For the ladybug question, I thought maybe a demonstration would help explain my question. When I mentioned drawing through the forms, I was talking about something like this (excuse the drawing with mouse) because of how the shell seems to cover everything but the bottom part in this reference. (warning: it's the underside of ladybug and a bit disgusting)

Not a terribly important thing, but it was something I spent quite a bit of time to figure out, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Hey Uncomfortable! Here are my extra drawings: https://imgur.com/a/3tDosv2 and here are some disastrous attempts that I am sharing just for transparency: https://imgur.com/a/XtmOUMQ

I had a very difficult time with both the Ladybug and the Mantis. I wanted to tackle these again to see if I can achieve something more 3D with your notes in mind. In both of them, one of the things that I am still struggling to understand is how the shell in Ladybug, or the extra form in Mantis' torso would be drawn if we wanted to draw through it.

My understanding is that we should draw through the forms, however the demos don't seem to represent that? For example, looking at your ladybug drawing in the Drawabox Lesson 4: An Introduction to Drawing Insects and Arachnids video, the shell doesn't seem to be enveloping the invisible part of the abdomen. So the shell looks like it's sitting on top of the abdomen and torso rather than enveloping it fully.

When I try to draw through the forms, I get a semi-successful representation, but it sometimes turn out a little confusing especially if the form I am adding is tricky. (like the form on Mantis' torso)

Anyhow, I did my best with my current level of understanding. The results don't necessarily feel right but certainly feels like an improvement since my last submission, so hopefully your feedback will help me push through my other confusions/failures.

P.S: I thought Ladybug would be the simplest to draw and somehow it is still giving me the most trouble.

These notes and extra drawings are incredibly helpful! I already feel like I understand what's wrong with my drawings a lot better and I am sure once I study them on paper and put them into action, it'll only get better. Thank you so much!

The only minor thing I want to mention is that, the reason I went with a bigger thorax for the ladybug was the position of bottom legs. I could have definitely extended the legs under the shell to their position in the reference, so your approach works for me, but I thought it was still worth mentioning.

I think I am thinking a bit too much about how things actually are rather than what is the best way to construct a reference. Until now, I would not construct the head of the mantis the way you outlined because that kind of approach didn't feel realistic to me. (anatomically) However, looking at your drawing, it's a great 3D representation and it doesn't matter how anatomically correct it is. (of course my assumption of this being anatomically incorrect might be false as well, but that's not the main point)

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to write/draw all this out.

I really appreciate the detailed feedback, thank you!

In previous lessons, some of the lessons notes and your feedback didn't immediately click for me even after reading them multiple times. Of course I understood the text itself, but I couldn't carry that over to my drawings. For most of it, working on the next lessons or your follow up feedback clarified things for me, so I kept pushing to figure things out. For this one, I am hoping I can ask some follow up questions especially since the next lesson is very similar to this one but more complex. I also want to make sure I can apply all this in my next set of insects.

For the contour ellipse, I understood that it represents the completely visible part of the form. I have been adding the ellipse after the curves and these sometimes didn't make sense. I knew it didn't make sense, but I wasn't sure why. I think your feedback cleared things up for me, but I am still not 100% sure. I think most of the sausages I drew are from the side, so there shouldn't be a circle at all. I think what I need to do is maybe start by adding a contour ellipse first and then shifting the degree with the curves. The ellipse itself makes it much easier to understand how that form sits in 3D space anyway.

For the ladybug, your feedback about the legs makes sense to me. I've been struggling with those connections a bit and adding the hooks definitely helps with my understanding of it. One thing I am still not 100% sure about is, when the form intersection is not drawn cleanly, I am not sure where I should be adding the contour curve. An example of that would be where you added the note about "doesn't hook properly" and whether the issue there is the degree of the curve and that it doesn't hook or whether I am adding it in the wrong place to begin with. (start and end points being wrong)

For the shell part of the ladybug, I am afraid I didn't quite understand your feedback. This is the reference that I drew this ladybug from. In the reference, it looks like there is a space between the shell that covers the head and some of thorax and the shell that covers the thorax and abdomen. So, I first tried to add the top shell by wrapping the form around the thorax. Then I left some space for the opening (which I probably should have added some shadow to clear it up) and then drew the big shell. For the top curve of big shell, I hooked it around the thorax a bit to better reflect that it covers more than just the top of the thorax but also some of the sides. The hook is more visible on the top of the curve then the bottom. Looking at your feedback drawing, it looks like you added the small shell under the big one which I may be misinterpreting. With my explanation in mind, I was hoping you could explain what I am missing.

For the mantis, I actually struggled quite hard with its head construction and I even thought about asking in the submission, but wanted to hear your thoughts first. When we start with a circle for cranium, I am still not sure how to add a squeezed sphere (ellipse) that encapsulate the cranium without undermining the previous step. I considered adding a contour ellipse and then adding 2 half sausages that connect to it, but that felt a bit convoluted to me. For that reason, I actually started with a squeezed sphere for my Louse Flies drawing whose head feels more solid to me, but it's also not something you do in demos, so I wasn't sure if that was OK to do.

If any other part of the mantis looks to be drawn as 2D, I'd really appreciate if you can point out which one it is, so I can better study my mistake. Unfortunately I don't have the reference with me right now, but I can add it in a few days when I am back home.

About the sausages for the legs, it's mainly a poor execution on my part. I've been practicing sausages on the side, especially the small ones, but I get stressed when I am working on the homework itself and lose confidence at times. Although they are getting better with practice, I am still struggling with the ones that are thinner and longer and I am curious if it'd be OK to construct these in multiple marks instead of just one go.

Finally, the tracing - I immediately regretted when I started doing that, but then I felt committed and I at least wanted to present a consistent drawing. I am definitely aware that the main usage of line weight is to clarify which line is in front.

Hopefully it's somewhat clear that I am definitely thinking about every mark and what that represents in 3D world even if sometimes what I am thinking and what the drawing turns out doesn't exactly match. I am going over all your notes and recordings multiple times and I am doing my best to follow them even if I don't fully understand them in the hopes that it'll click after a while. Admittedly it's been slow going, so I really appreciate all your help and your patience while I figure all this out.